School uniforms - for or against?

I think a sweatshirt or jumper in the school colours would be enough, with smart black trousers and a polo shirt.
Schools should not be allowed to dictate what socks a child should wear.

I wore a uniform and taught in schools with or without uniform.I believe it has recently been made illegal to make a uniform costly they have to allow high street suppliers. I may be mistaken but I'm Sutterton has recently been encouraged least. Also low income families can only qualify or uniform vouchers for their children if there is a uniform.

I must have been an ignorant child attending lots of different schools full of lots of children as ignorant as I was. i can only once in my education remember being aware that a girl in my class came from a family that needed help, I suppose other#s were aware as well but nobody did or said anything about it or treated her differently.

Much the same with my children, I was more aware that some families were not as well off as others. For several years DD was friendly with one of the children in such a family, but whether DD noticed I do not know, it wasn't a subject that was ever discussed at home., nor was it a subject that would have been avoided if either of my children had asked.

I'm sure that was ! Also it prevents arguments asking for expensive labels etc . So in conclusion I'm definitely pro uniform.

Your gc are very lucky Rosie

As a teacher in FE, I was filling in with a class of child-care students. The discussion turned to school uniforms which they all claimed to have hated. I looked round the class and, almost every single one of them was wearing a college sweat shirt and denim jeans. Uniform, no way! Uniformity? why not?

I’m completely in favour of school uniform but think it should be of the affordable type you can buy in the chain stores with perhaps a badge bought from the school. When I was a child there was enough money for the uniform and I was so grateful to have it. My father was very strict and my home clothes were always so old fashioned and too young for my age. I would have felt ridiculous if I’d had to wear them to school. I hated parties because my clothes were so different from those of my friends. I often went home from parties crying with embarrassment.

You can only get help towards uniform in exceptional circumstances such as a fire, or something like that.
Another myth that people believe is that single parents get money towards the cost.

"51Esspee
I think uniforms raise standards both academically and socially."

How exactly does wearing a uniform do this? How do children/ students in high performing countries that do not have uniforms manage?? It is a part of our ingrained class system.

Who are all these children demanding expensive clothes and labels? I know they exist, but I currently I have two teenage grandchildren. DGD is very clothes conscious, but there has been no demand for designer labels. She did want a pair of Doc Martins, but had to wait until Christmas and have them as a Christmas present. Nor can I see a designer label obsession among her friends. DGS has only just started on his teenage life and so far has shown no interest in clothes.

As I said, yes, some children are obsessed with designer labels, but I suspect these children are not the majority, nor are they all, or many, from the most affluent families. They are just a subset of children in what are usually very big schools and there will be many other subsets of children who are not obsessed with designer labels.

M0nica I would agree with that experience. I have 3 teen DGCs ..they do like to dress in particular ways but they, and their peers, are also aware of the impact of " fashion" on the environment and are all into second hand clothes..trawling charity shops, buying secondhand clothes at "by the weight' sales. For the upcoming school ' prom' in June my DGD & friends have agreed a price limit on their dresses & a what colour they will wear. If everyone else is in v expensive stuff they won't care because as a group of friends they are happy with their choices.

Who are all these children demanding expensive clothes and labels?
Initially the children whose parents can afford to buy them. It is often inspired by the parents, who value branded goods e.g. Nike, Ugg, Radley, Seasalt, Jo Malone, but the children become interested very easily. They ask for brands, talk about them and then other children notice and covet.

I was talking to my youngest’s teacher in the 1980s when another Mum burst in demanding to know why her child’s cardigan had paint on it , as it cost £68! The teacher did mutter “more fool you then”.

Mollygo Yes, but what proportion of children are actually in this group?

PECS has just posted on her experience of her DGC and it is clear that if we had grandchildren same age, same school, they would all be part of the substantial group of those not interested in designer labels.

It is so easy to trot out these cliches about poor children and rich children. Rich children in their designer labels, poor children in rags. I suspect that the better off the children's families, the more likely they are to be environmentally conscious and chasing vintage clothes.

Lets be honest, if you come from the average middle income home ,I am not talking wealthy, nor am I talking private school but the child from the average 3 bed semi attending the local state school you do not feel the need to prove anything about yourself that is based on money.

No idea M0nica.
No idea either about what proportion of posters on GN wear stuff from the White Company or Ugg boots or buy Jo Malone candles and all the other things we discuss on here.
I don’t recollect saying a large proportion would be interested, so I don’t understand your question.
I do think school uniform is a good idea. I do accept that not everyone thinks so.
I do think children in whatever proportion exists notice branded clothes. If you don’t then that doesn’t bother me.

Mollygo, my point was, we cannot tell whether poorer children are intimidated and made to feel awkward, by children wearing designer clothes unless we know what proportion of children are dressing like that. two in a class of 30+. I doubt it. 20 in a class of 30+, probably.

It is not who recognises a group in designer clothes or a group who always dress as angels (in school colours obviously), it is the size of that group in relation to the whole that matters.

Why are you so het up about this, M0nica?

We cannot tell whether poorer children are intimidated or not intimidated and made to feel awkward unless we are one of those children and that’s my point.
If you are one of those children and you feel bad, (not necessarily intimidated-that implies bullying and if you mean bullied you should say so), then it’s important for you, as an individual, not as a proportion of a group. Who is to say whether the whole group of less well off children feel bad e.g. because their trainers aren’t Nike?
If you are one of those people who feel happy in a school uniform then it is important to you as an individual, not as a proportion of a group. Who is to say that the whole cohort are happy in their school uniform?
If you are one of the designer labels group, then it may be important to you, just as buying the right candles is to some adults.
I’m still not sure what response you want?

I think it's more and more important for children (teens) to feel that they fit in, these days.
Consumerism is encouraged, and people are only too quick to take it on board and defend it.

It's trendy (for now) to buy secondhand and waste less, but that is just a fad, I think.

You have only to read threads on here to hear of named brand, high end purchases

I get irritated by sweeping generalisations that do not stand up to scrutiny and amount, sometimes. to socially approved cliches. rather than careful study.

I doubt anyone rich or poor goes through life without for, sometime longish periods, feeling isolated lonely, different or out on a limb, especially when they are children. It is a normal part of life.

Many of those with expensive goods are the children of parents who find it easier to spend money on their children rather than give them time and attention. This is especially so when parents are separated or divorced. A poor child from a loving home is far better off than one caught in a game of pingpong between separated parents who have no time for their child so just shop for them.

In any class there will be as many children from poor homes as rich, Vintage may be a fad, but it is a cheap fad, especially if you can sew and turn old clothes into new.

It is this parcelling into children into huge groups rich and with designer goods, poor and coming barefoot to school (yes I know that is an exageration), but no more than defined before.came before. Any big school will have children in all sorts of groups affinity, activity, sporting, hobby, and every child will belong to several. these simplistic cliched groups deny every child the right to not be in those groups.

So why shouldn't a poor child from a loving family feel at ease, wearing what others are?
Having ankle swingers for trousers, jumpers with bobbles on, and fraying collars isn't a sign of inner strength.

M0nica

I get irritated by sweeping generalisations that do not stand up to scrutiny.

* Me too M0nica.*
Ones like
Many of those with expensive goods are the children of parents who find it easier to spend money on their children rather than give them time and attention. This is especially so when parents are separated or divorced. A poor child from a loving home is far better off than one caught in a game of pingpong between separated parents who have no time for their child so just shop for them.
Or It is this parcelling into children into huge groups
Who has used that phrase apart from you? Certainly not me.
Or even. “Any big school will have children in all sorts of groups affinity, activity, sporting, hobby, and every child will belong to several.”
No they won’t necessarily even belong to one activity, sporting or hobby.
These sweeping generalisations!

i can only once in my education remember being aware that a girl in my class came from a family that needed help, I suppose other#s were aware as well but nobody did or said anything about it or treated her differently.

But do you know how she felt!! No.

One of my pupils many years ago came from a school with no uniform to our school (basic blue sweat shirt, white polo shirt, blue trousers/skirt but nearly all the girls preferred trousers). Quiet girl, first time she spoke out in tutor time was when a couple of kids were moaning about uniform. She said she now got an extra 15 minutes in bed because she didn't have to work out what to wear to school, and when she went out socially, none of her mates had seen her best top or her new trousers.

However
Girls in ties is silly
Manmade washable blazers are ugly
Now we have 'academy uniforms', all the girls seem to wear impractical skirts

I didn't mind my tie- my boyfriend showed me a good knot and it came in pretty useful when I was teaching my grandson how to tie a tie. We used to 'adjust' our uniforms, that was part of the fun. I don't think they do that now, at least not round here, they all look the same.

Very few schools have ties now. One reason is because of the rise in use of ties as weapons. Being unable to tie a tie was given as a sign of dyslexia -even after ties were not in use.