School uniforms - for or against?

MOnica I, too, totally disagree with your rich child/poor child comment. Teenagers can be very bitchy quite of their own accord and perfectly capable of sniffing out disadvantaged "differences" in financial status.

A vote for uniforms from me.
My school blazer was second-hand and I hated it, and I would have struggled to have enough 'ordinary' clothes to wear every day.

Uniforms are great if they are readily available from supermarkets etc. There's no point having expensive clothes for children who grow out of them so quickly.

I am all for uniform specially for teenagers there are enough problems with what they are doing with their hair in the morning let alone ages spent discussing what they might wear, what somebody else has etc. I think blazers look very smart but would agree they are one of the most expensive pieces of the uniform. Sports gear for both sexes could be looked at, specially at the start when they are trying new sports which they might not keep going with.

As for the poor child/rich child thing. That is entirely in the minds of the adults. If they didn't constantly harp on it, the children wouldn't notice.

Well I certainly noticed Monica - as a young teen how could I not notice that I had so few clothes?

You obviously didn't grow up poor.

Agree with biglouise.

Uniforms do suppress individuality and are, frankly, ugly. They don't make children look smart, quite the opposite.

When there are lots of different uniforms in an area, they don't show belonging to a particular community, but promote inter-school antagonism.

I always have hated them, and moaned long and hard about my children having to wear them. My daughter, however, doesn't mind dressing her girls in uniforms, although does criticise the expense.

I have noticed in recent years that supermarkets have really “stepped up” to fill the gap left by the demise of childrens stores (remember Adams, Ladybird, Mothercare shops?) You can buy a gingham Summer school dress for around £5, which is what I used to pay in the 1990’s for my girls. And I’ve bought some lovely outfits and basics for my new Grandson in Morrisons and Asda, at very reasonable prices. I always appreciated school uniforms, made life so much easier (especially as one DD was soooo fussy about what she wore - and is to this day!)

Uniform does not mean equality, it means uniformity. Adults trying to make children what they want to be and mould them into little clones so they can be treat as an amorphous mass. All looking exactly the same, without personality and individuality.

This is why children are so creative in subverting uniform by messing it around.

As for the poor child/rich child thing. That is entirely in the minds of the adults. If they didn't constantly harp on it, the children wouldn't notice.

As an ex-teacher I agree with the uniform it means equality no one with the flashing trainers or the latest trend.
I do see it from the other point of view as I suffered as a child when I went to Grammar school, people knew whose uniform was from the local Co-op and laughed at us. I could imagine how this would have been far worse if we had been allowed our own clothes.
Most schools have second-hand shops or a box of lost clothes that are eventually given to children who need them. Skirts trousers and blouses can be bought cheaply from supermarkets maybe manufacturers need to look at the price they charge for sweatshirts or blazers.
Uniforms do give cohesion to the school and hopefully a sense of pride, and, ease for parents dressing children in the morning.

I'm in favour of a basic generic uniform that can be purchased cheaply.

I grew up poor and used to dread the summer term as we could wear mufti and I had very little non-uniform clothing.

Another uniform fan here.
I was a weird child who liked mine so much I used to wear it at weekends...why?
We were quite poor as kids and although Ma managed to scrape enough money together for my grammar school uniform she couldn't afford a coat. Nan, an inveterate market goer, stepped in with a Burberry. Unfortunately, Burberry was a generic term just meaning a mac and in this case it was a large Woman's mac which my well meaning Nan had shortened by the local seamstress. This meant the whole integrity of design of the coat was skewed as the top button and lapels started somewhere around my waist - not a good look for a first day at a new school in a new town and you have to stand in front of the whole class because you're late and your name begins with B and everyone has to shuffle one desk back to accommodate you
And, as we only got two decent outfits a year - one at Christmas and one for Walking Day in the Summer - I would have struggled to keep up without a uniform. That is, until Nan came to the rescue again with a hand operated Singer, Biba brought out patterns and I began to make my own clothes like so many of us on here.

As for being 'good' for children. If children get labelled for being poor or whatever, the fault lies withtheir arents who brought them up to think poor people should be sneered at

Really Monica?!

PECS

Gagajo I ws a headteacher in a school with no uniforms & kids used our first names. Behaviour management at that school was no easier or harder than schools I worked in with uniforms. It is not about clothes!

Taking time out of a lesson to explain to a 15 year old boy why his muscle t-shirt (working in a very hot country) was inappropriate because I could see his nipples, or to a girl because her clothing was so scanty I could see her bra would have been avoided with a basic uniform.

Waste of my teaching time.

When I was at school (and my children) we had uniform at secondary, not primary, schools. Primaries had auniform but most did not wear it. Nowadays all primary children wear uniform.
I think it is much better to wear uniform at secondary. I went with my teen GD last year to buy new uniform at the specialist shop and it was £120, which is not a lot for teen clothes.
Next year she goes to sixth form and all local schools have a policy of formal office wear so a whole new wardrobe of clothes that she would not otherwise wear.

I look upon them as a leveller so for that reason I support the idea, I wonder if they weren't in place whether there would be a "shaming" of some by others if what they wear is deemed cheap. I can remember some of the banter from teen years for example "dresses like a tramp" apropos of the individual's "lowly trainers". Some kids of that age can pick on almost anything to victimise and clothes and shoes, I imagine could be used in such a way. Although observations from being in France and the US, I believe only very posh academies subscribe to uniforms there, I think I'd be interested to know whether they think what the have works.

Having said that my memories of my own convent senior school's stricture over uniforms was taken to the enth degree, regulation everything, including straw boaters in the summer white gloves going to and from school and woe betide us if we had any of it missing That left a feeling of load of bollocks! fatuous nonsense for me, but I think a looser approach to some sort of uniform is probably a good thing. When my children were in their infant school, at that time they hadn't adopted a uniform and I still had arguments with one of mine even at that age as to what he wanted to wear everyday, so I welcomed the basic uniform, school sweat shirt, white polo shirt underneath and standard grey trousers when he started in year 3 juniors, relief! I thought that at least made my life easier in the mornings.

Yes from me for ease of what to wear each day. A good second system for everyone to use, surely by now everyone is onboard with recycling!

I agree with uniforms, and do remember the girls who 'tweaked' it to show some individuality.

I agree the expense is large. I remember my late husband telling me his Dad walked to work for a month to afford his school blazer - and he lost it

Nearly all the schoolchildren here wear uniforms, state and private schools. It represents equality and that is the reason. Sometimes they have ‘free dress’ days but they are not really free because they have pretty strict guidelines. I totally support them, they look smart and you know which school each child attends.

In terms of wearing a uinform per se I did not mind it so much as resent the fact that there was not sufficient money at home to provide me with the new clothes other kids had. I was once sent to school with cardboard in the soles of my shoes because my mother said she could not afford another pair. Once again my gran stepped in and bought me a pair of ugly but well made Clarks lace up shoes.

Apart from the school tie our school uniform was pretty generic and was not enforced strictly for the last year. By that time I had a part time job so was able to buy generic clothes (plain dark skirts for example) that I could also wear outside of school.

I went to my first interview wearing my school skirt and blouse (no tie) and accompanied by my gran. That was considered quite appropriate in the early 1960s and many interviewers liked to see a young person accompanied by a parent or guardian.

I went straight into the civil service from school and was very conscious of having to buy the "correct" kinds of clothes to wear in the office. I wore my school blouse and skirt until I got my first pay because I had nothing else suitable.

Ive seen so many threads where parents said they received a long detailed list of what they had to supply for the DC. In some cases it even specified what kinds of hair bobbles the girls were allowed to wear!!!!

One poster said she was having to spend £750 per DC on the right kit, including all branded sports kit. This was not an exclusive private school but a state school.

There were other threads where children were punished by being "isolated" for some minor infraction like having the wrong shoes or astripe on their socks. I thought there were laws against "inhuman and unusual" punishments.

Im just wondering how many parents will be managing to find these ridiculous sums of money with the current cost of living rises. My guess is that there will be more pressure groups forming and parents lashing back hard against all but generic style uniforms.

Ragtime

Totally in favour of uniforms but dd is going to secondary school in September and uniform will cost in excess of £300. Everything has to be purchased from their supplier with their badge and house badges...including pe kit. Its unnecessary

It is a big expense at first but my dd stayed in same uniform for her 6 years..in lreland. New shirts every September but skirts, blazer and jumpers lasted the whole way through. Boys were going around with blazer sleeves half way up their arms but no way would they invest in a new one. Pretty threadbare jumpers in her final year but that was part of her plan ..to not wear a brand new one. As a price per wear you will not get better value. Sometimes they had non uniform days and some kids stayed home as couldn't decide what to wear or were afraid of not having the right gear. Dread to think what it would be like dealing with that every day.
It was a private school but all the parents queued up to the second hand sale to buy hand me downs so money didn't make a difference clothes wise at least.
I am all for uniforms.

I am for school uniforms. They look smart and identify a child as belonging to a particular school. These days the bulk of school uniform can be bought at the supermarkets. Blazers and jumpers usually have the school logo on them so cost a bit more but many schools have second hand sales to help those on a tighter budget. It makes life easier too. If students wore their own clothes each day the ones from poorer families would be easier to identify and children can be pretty nasty to each other over things like this. It is bad enough when school has a mufti day. It takes ages for my granddaughters (9 of them) to go through their wardrobes and decide on what to wear, driving their mothers to distraction. Uniform every time.

Dds went to an independent senior school where the head was not in fact in favour of uniform at all, but it stayed because the parents preferred it. But if they wanted it, it had to be the right uniform.
She subsequently got so fed up with girls not wearing the official red school jumper/sweatshirt, but a different red one, that there eventually came a very firmly worded note saying that if your daughter came to school in the wrong jumper, she would be provided with the correct one and the cost would be added to your bill!
That head was brilliant - long gone now, RIP.

Gagajo I ws a headteacher in a school with no uniforms & kids used our first names. Behaviour management at that school was no easier or harder than schools I worked in with uniforms. It is not about clothes!

School uniforms can be useful for parents..here are your school clothes..put them on! However some schools/ parents mistakenly think uniform creates pride in belonging an institution, helps to manage behaviour, reduces difference in financial background etc. If children do not feel a sense of belonging unless they are all dressed in identical outfits the institution is not doing its job well enough. If behaviour is managed through strict dress codes it does not properly understand behaviour management.
I fully appreciate why uniformed services need their strict dress codes..the discipline needed in life or death situations requires people to have quick response to orders etc.
Schools should just have an identifier sweatshirt/ logo and school colour/s for skirts/ trousers/ shirts but not from particular suppliers. Kids know each other & who lives in a big house & who does not..it does not take clothes to identify family income. Amongst my 4 DGC & their friends they have a range of friends from very different socio economic backgrounds. That is a school that has done its job well..value people first..not the quality of their clothes.

As a teacher, school uniforms are a blessing. I've worked in 2 schools where there was no uniform and OMG, I wasted sooooo much time policing what students were wearing. I'm a teacher. Not dress code police!

Fortunately, most UK schools have realistic uniforms with generic colour specific trousers and sweatshirts.

I did once work at a very exclusive private school where the students would take their bog standard blazers to a tailor and get them modified!

I’m in favour - saves arguments over what to wear and especially at the senior stage, is a leveller - nobody is going to feel bad because their parents can’t afford expensive clothes.

Though having said that, I do remember feeling a bit hard done by on starting grammar school, when it seemed that everybody else had everything brand new, while I had all hand-me-downs from my sister - including the indoor Mary-Jane type shoes we had to have.

For this reason, although there was a flourishing 2nd hand shop, I was determined to buy all new for dds when they started senior school. And it certainly was expensive - winter coat* all the PE kit, etc. but after their first years I bought nothing new except shirts and socks.
*which none of them ever wore! - so I only bought that for dd1.