Why do British royal children not go to state schools like the Scandanavian royals?

varian

Having been, for many years, a school governor, I believe that no-one should ever be appointed as a governor if they have children eligible to attend the school but chose to send them elsewhere - for any reason.

If the school is not good enough for your children, whose children is it good enough for?

I agree, varian and we know a few teachers who taught in the state system just to earn enough money to pay school fees to enable their own children to attend independent schools.

varian

Having been, for many years, a school governor, I believe that no-one should ever be appointed as a governor if they have children eligible to attend the school but chose to send them elsewhere - for any reason.

If the school is not good enough for your children, whose children is it good enough for?

My thoughts exactly Varian, I was spitting feathers when the story was related to me.

Mamie

Has any one else read Sad Little Men by Richard Beard? Fascinating insight into the system that produced Boris Johnson et al.

No but I've read an article by him about how he was traumatised and damaged by going away to boarding school age eight. He is writing subjectively.

Not all schools are boarding schools.

volver

Callistemon21

volver

hose who send their children to independent, fee-paying schools are, in effect, paying twice.

Well here's the thing.

Nobody is making them pay for education, they've decided they want to. So complaining about it and telling us how hard done by they are cuts no ice with me.

And if people are complaining because they have to contribute to having an educated workforce, well I have no time for that either.

You see, you're doing it again!

No-one said that they were complaining about it at all.

Nor that people are complaining because they have to contribute to having an educated workforce

No-one at all.

I am hypothesising.

If some people want to take it personally, fair enough.

(BTW - Somebody did complain that they were paying taxes for education on top of the school fees they choose to pay and not getting any benefit for it.)

(BTW - Somebody did complain that they were paying taxes for education on top of the school fees they choose to pay and not getting any benefit for it.)

Do you have a reference or link to the someone please.
I'm not sure who the they refers to or if it's a vague reference to something someone said once upon a time somewhere.

Having been, for many years, a school governor, I believe that no-one should ever be appointed as a governor if they have children eligible to attend the school but chose to send them elsewhere - for any reason.

If the school is not good enough for your children, whose children is it good enough for?

Has any one else read Sad Little Men by Richard Beard? Fascinating insight into the system that produced Boris Johnson et al.

I completely understand the motivation of why parents remove a child from a school, if the child is deeply unhappy and particularly if they are being bullied and the school in question can't seem to sort the problem out. I empathise with "I'll do anything to make this child of mine happier, move heaven and earth, financial sacrifices if necessary," if that's an option. I think to want to help your child in such a scenario is a very innate reaction, it kind of goes with the territory of being a parent I guess. I know, as probably most of us do, people who have moved their child/ren into the private sector for those very justifiable reasons.

Having said that, I think what I find irksome and this is very much in the real world as opposed to anything that has been said on GN, the complacency in which, and I'm sure they are a minority, those who make either disparaging comments to others who unlike them are putting their children through the state system or simply for whatever reason make it clear that it's absolutely not something they could ever contemplate and convey that in a bare faced way, I think it's thoughtless at best and damn rude at worst.

I mentioned up thread a person I know who staggered the peasants he found himself with when he uttered these immortal words "if you send your children to a state school they'll be lucky to come out of it writing their own name" This was around the time our children were going into school with a group of us who were sending their children into the state system, followed by a smug "we want to do the best for our child" Oh yeah right M'lud no one who sends their child into the state system could possibly have those aspirations, all they want is for their kids to merely survive the experience and if they're lucky take up some lowly servile role He's not typical I imagine, a crass individual who is married to a friend of mine, later on she was to declare "he's upset all our friends, some we hardly see anymore" oh there's a surprise thought I! Their child did indeed go into the private sector. This friend lives pretty near our mutual home town where we went to school. I was utterly nonplussed when she told me a mother at her child's private school was a governor at the state junior school we both went to. This woman who sounded an utter raving snob in her condemnation of it, in her words "full of rough badly behaved children" anyway friend let her run off at the mouth for about five minutes slagging off our pretty standard catholic junior school, before quietly adding "yeah I went there". Our school, as indeed my children's school always was a mix of children from various backgrounds, thank God! I do wonder what her motivation was in becoming governor of a school she wouldn't send her own child/ren to as in not so many words she deemed it fit only for the hoi polloi

My husband through his work had many public school educated clients, most of them lovely people, although there were always those who live in such a rarefied atmosphere they had no experience of a life outside their own little world. He once told me he a meeting with such a client to chew over his alarming financial state of affairs struggling with an incredibly large money pit of a house complete with paddocks, horses, school fees for 4 children a life style that was slowly bankrupting him. Wanting the impossible to reduce outgoings without making any significant changes to lifestyle, among other things, they discussed moving to a smaller property, then my husband mooted "have you thought about putting your children into the state system" Client's reaction was to go slack jawed with a "b b b b but no one in the family has ever been to a state school" Clearly just about the most alarming proposition he could contemplate so ingrained in the "I can't be the one to break the status quo", I think he responded to husband "would you?" my other half "that's where they are" client "good grief". Husband is a grammar school boy so he was never part of that way of life, possibly client mistakenly thought he was. I think I had that recollection in mind when I read the OP

Callistemon21

volver

hose who send their children to independent, fee-paying schools are, in effect, paying twice.

Well here's the thing.

Nobody is making them pay for education, they've decided they want to. So complaining about it and telling us how hard done by they are cuts no ice with me.

And if people are complaining because they have to contribute to having an educated workforce, well I have no time for that either.

You see, you're doing it again!

No-one said that they were complaining about it at all.

Nor that people are complaining because they have to contribute to having an educated workforce

No-one at all.

I am hypothesising.

If some people want to take it personally, fair enough.

(BTW - Somebody did complain that they were paying taxes for education on top of the school fees they choose to pay and not getting any benefit for it.)

Good article Sago.
Teachers are perceptive and articulate when it comes to comparisons between independent and state schools,especially if they have worked in both. (I haven't).
Parents on the other hand are emotive and tend to hone in on one or two specific things their child needs when looking at a private education. Sometimes academic achievement is way down the list, often rightly so.

volver

^hose who send their children to independent, fee-paying schools are, in effect, paying twice.^

Well here's the thing.

Nobody is making them pay for education, they've decided they want to. So complaining about it and telling us how hard done by they are cuts no ice with me.

And if people are complaining because they have to contribute to having an educated workforce, well I have no time for that either.

I haven’t complained about paying twice neither did my parents.

I am all for an educated workforce, in fact I am all for education at any age.

Nor do any of the folks that I know.

volver

^hose who send their children to independent, fee-paying schools are, in effect, paying twice.^

Well here's the thing.

Nobody is making them pay for education, they've decided they want to. So complaining about it and telling us how hard done by they are cuts no ice with me.

And if people are complaining because they have to contribute to having an educated workforce, well I have no time for that either.

You see, you're doing it again!

No-one said that they were complaining about it at all.

Nor that people are complaining because they have to contribute to having an educated workforce

No-one at all.

Thank you Mamie. Lots of reading!
The thing about independent schools is that each one can choose to do what suits them individually, implement their own curriculum, and operate in such a way that best suits their own school and its pupils. That is why GG13 is right to say parents have to do their own homework to find out which school suits their children best. I would imagine William and Catherine are pretty discerning customers!

Joseanne

The Tony Blair years, if any, should have seen a big drop in the number of admissions to private schools. But this did not happen for several reasons. Firstly because he broke his promise about education, education, education being his chief concern, ( too busy dealing with the Iraq war), and secondly because parents could see little reduction in state school class sizes down to the 18 - 20 numbers in independent schools. Moreover, there was shown to be no great improvement in learning outcomes in state schools, so once again there was disillusionment. In the private sector at least parents can see what they are getting for their money and contractually promises cannot be broken.

My daughter went into teaching during the Blair years. She loved her job. She left because of the Conservative government draining schools of resources, class sizes increasing.

hose who send their children to independent, fee-paying schools are, in effect, paying twice.

Well here's the thing.

Nobody is making them pay for education, they've decided they want to. So complaining about it and telling us how hard done by they are cuts no ice with me.

And if people are complaining because they have to contribute to having an educated workforce, well I have no time for that either.

A very interesting article here from a teacher who cut her teeth in the state system is now in a private school.

The only point in the article I didn’t find in our children's education was the school “ teaching the exam”

Please read this balanced article.

www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwji2PeW2uT5AhWMilwKHWJ_C5gQFnoECEMQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fteacher-network%2Fteacher-blog%2F2012%2Fdec%2F05%2Fstate-independent-sector-teaching-differences&usg=AOvVaw2n-V0E2n9JErlfQ_qZb8CV

Has anyone thought that by sending our children to independent schools, we have saved the taxpayer money?

Yes, this thread is littered with people uttering such ridiculous things. A well educated populace doesn't emerge from crumbs from the rich man's table, and people who try to pretend that their offspring going to fee paying schools is somehow a public service make me speechless

That is not at all what posters have said. No-one has said it is a public service at all.

I think what they have said is quite clear.

Those who send their children to independent, fee-paying schools are, in effect, paying twice. They are paying taxes which go into the public purse from which is funded education but from which they receive no benefit.
They then pay again for a private education for their child - their choice in a democratic, non-totalitarian state.

Those taxpayers without children of school age also contribute too. That's what a civilised society does.

I'm sorry if you can't see that, only a distorted view of what you think posters said.

Mamie

Report here Joseanne.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/175408/DFE-00032-2011.pdf
Would be interested to see something from the independent sector from the same time.
The PISA data was often deeply flawed wasn't it?
I am independent school educated myself and have also visited quite a few in my time. Not sure I would agree with a picture of brilliance across the whole sector. ?

I agree that not all fee paying schools are brilliant, parents have to do their homework to find a school which matches their child’s/children’s needs.

Sometimes it’s the pastoral care which is more important than exam results.

Report here Joseanne.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/175408/DFE-00032-2011.pdf
Would be interested to see something from the independent sector from the same time.
The PISA data was often deeply flawed wasn't it?
I am independent school educated myself and have also visited quite a few in my time. Not sure I would agree with a picture of brilliance across the whole sector. ?

Also were there not OECD reports at the time circa 2000 detailing how English pupils were slipping behind the rest of Europe in terms of education and results? Notably Scandinavian countries and I believe Holland. I guess catching up will be hard when others are way out in front. I don't pretend to have the answer for state schools but by no means would I wish to see them abandoned. Children are our future, wherever, whatever.

I'm happy to stand corrected Mamie if you are right. And I am pleased there was a raising of standards whoever was in power.
Apologies, perhaps I should have said no significant improvement when compared with independent schools who were ahead of the game to start with and who were also taking leaps forward at this time.
We were all no doubt doing our stuff in different ways and it is difficult to compare like for like. Most independent schools I knew were not even doing KS2 tests as they saw no need to prove themselves in the core subjects.
The number of pupils applying for places in the private sector did not drop off. Certainly mid 1990s and thereafter we were inundated.

But I repeat, this does not mean that teachers themselves in the private sector are any better than those in the state system.

I am going to disagree with you there Joseanne. The data show that there were significant measurable improvements in the Blair years, particularly in the (then) core subjects of literacy, numeracy, science and ICT. These were most marked at KS 1 and 2, but things take time to work through to KS 3 and 4. Ofsted also saw an improvement in the number of schools with good, very good and outstanding judgements.
I was an LA and Ofsted inspector and I was doing this stuff!

GrannyGravy13

Quoting your post of 13.29 volver. ^ I said that 12 years of Tory rule makes people abandon responsibility for other people^

That's still something I think might be true. That, or the opposite. No mention of "ordinary Conservative voters".

After 12 years of Tory (mis)rule, its devil take the hindmost.

Or, Devil take the hindmost has landed us with 12 years of Tory rule.

Totally correct Joseanne

Quoting your post of 13.29 volver. ^ I said that 12 years of Tory rule makes people abandon responsibility for other people^

The Tony Blair years, if any, should have seen a big drop in the number of admissions to private schools. But this did not happen for several reasons. Firstly because he broke his promise about education, education, education being his chief concern, ( too busy dealing with the Iraq war), and secondly because parents could see little reduction in state school class sizes down to the 18 - 20 numbers in independent schools. Moreover, there was shown to be no great improvement in learning outcomes in state schools, so once again there was disillusionment. In the private sector at least parents can see what they are getting for their money and contractually promises cannot be broken.