Why do British royal children not go to state schools like the Scandanavian royals?

So what you want Yammy is a reduction to the lowest common denominator so all suffer equally.

I prefer a system where we do our best to make sure none suffer, and if that means that on the way to attaining it some suffer but it gets gradually fewer, it seems to me, not a perfect, but certainably a preferable scheme.

I benefitted by going to a good grammar school. However, back then children that didn’t pass the 11 plus were branded as failures. And I only remembered this recently but although I was in a class at primary school where many of us went on to pass the 11plus there was another class where all the no hopers were put. I bet they were children that were on the spectrum or dyslexic. Possibly eye or hearing problems.

Katie59

The one overriding fault with state schools in the UK is that reasonable standards of behavior are not enforced, many (most) other nations including the third world do.

It’s very hard to learn, even harder to teach when discipline is ignored, it’s nothing to do with deprivation, it’s because nobody cares.

I wouldn’t say that nobody cares - it’s just that some are too wet to enforce any discipline.

At a time when maths teachers were in short supply (maybe still are) a relative of mine, who’s certainly robust enough, finally resigned from teaching when a particularly wet and spineless head refused to exclude a boy whose disruptive behaviour culminated in actually throwing a dart at him in the classroom. And by that I mean a dartboard dart, not a paper thing.

We have Grammar Schools in our County and the majority of senior state schools stream pupils, and some primary schools from year 2 also stream.

Glorianny

Yammy

Galaxy

Yet Bridgewater in Scotswood is one of the best schools I have experienced in my professional capacity

That is now, you should have been in the area 40 years ago.
Convicted paedophile Deputy Head now in Durham Goal.
All Staff screened at N/C General for T.B.as one member was found to have it.
Rampant Shigella/dysentery that half the children caught and members of staff who still have health issues today brought in by children who had visited grandparents abroad and not been examined on return.
Psychologists visit every week.
Teachers threatened to be stabbed by Afghan children who were disturbed with what they had encountered.
Prevention of clubs from integrating of all Races and cultures by local prostitutes who threatened to tell.
A house was burned down by a family playing with matches.
Police visited reception classes to find children who were stealing money out of supermarket trolleys.
Yes, I could really see the Royal children in that environment.
I used it as an example and actually if you note did not name the school, I might add it all happened within two terms.
I'm really glad if things have improved for the staff and especially the children Bridgewater did not exist when I was there.

Heaven forbid the royal children should encounter any of the realities of living in an area of poor housing and inadequate services. That's only for those at the bottom of the pile.
The single mum fleeing domestic violence for example. Why should her children get a decent education?
Actually schools in that area have struggled for years providing for children whose life chances are limited through one factor or another, The staff working in them are amongst the most dedicated and committed people in the education sector. A lack of proper funding makes their job even harder.

To suggest that the people now paying for education wouldn't make a huge difference to the education of all children in this country is to ignore the obvious. If you are vocal, demanding and knowledgable about something you generally demand you are provided with the very best. If you know little, and have so many problems your life is difficult anyway, you accept what you are given, because it's easier that way. Add to this the fact that those better off parents will be paying more of a contribution through their taxes, so will naturally demand more is spent educating their children. Both of those would improve education in this country

I'm not saying that children from poor families should have to suffer these situations and I think the dedicated staff deserve the praise they very rarely get. I am saying thank goodness things have changed in SOME schools, though some poor children still have inadequate resources. Education should be equal for all but who is going to pay for it?
Barbara Castle tried to make equal opportunities for all when she got rid of Grammar schools. I wonder how many grans benefitted before she changed all. Teachers who work in these kinds of schools are worth their weight in gold.

Yammy

Galaxy

Yet Bridgewater in Scotswood is one of the best schools I have experienced in my professional capacity

That is now, you should have been in the area 40 years ago.
Convicted paedophile Deputy Head now in Durham Goal.
All Staff screened at N/C General for T.B.as one member was found to have it.
Rampant Shigella/dysentery that half the children caught and members of staff who still have health issues today brought in by children who had visited grandparents abroad and not been examined on return.
Psychologists visit every week.
Teachers threatened to be stabbed by Afghan children who were disturbed with what they had encountered.
Prevention of clubs from integrating of all Races and cultures by local prostitutes who threatened to tell.
A house was burned down by a family playing with matches.
Police visited reception classes to find children who were stealing money out of supermarket trolleys.
Yes, I could really see the Royal children in that environment.
I used it as an example and actually if you note did not name the school, I might add it all happened within two terms.
I'm really glad if things have improved for the staff and especially the children Bridgewater did not exist when I was there.

Heaven forbid the royal children should encounter any of the realities of living in an area of poor housing and inadequate services. That's only for those at the bottom of the pile.
The single mum fleeing domestic violence for example. Why should her children get a decent education?
Actually schools in that area have struggled for years providing for children whose life chances are limited through one factor or another, The staff working in them are amongst the most dedicated and committed people in the education sector. A lack of proper funding makes their job even harder.

To suggest that the people now paying for education wouldn't make a huge difference to the education of all children in this country is to ignore the obvious. If you are vocal, demanding and knowledgable about something you generally demand you are provided with the very best. If you know little, and have so many problems your life is difficult anyway, you accept what you are given, because it's easier that way. Add to this the fact that those better off parents will be paying more of a contribution through their taxes, so will naturally demand more is spent educating their children. Both of those would improve education in this country

Crikey DaisyAnne Please read my post again. I didn't call anyone names and I certainly do not have a superior attitude. I was offering thoughts in answer to the question posted regarding education and healthcare and as I said, pointing out how hard it is to understand the view if you do not share it.

I wish we had a better state education system too, I in no way support small state and do not think that the 6% paying for education stops this happening.

I wasn't trying to change anyone's view.

RichmondPark1

*How can anybody be of the opinion that its OK to perpetuate a system where the well off get better healthcare, education, social care?*

Lack of imagination?
Resistance to change?
A belief that they and theirs will be alright because they have money (coupled with voting for a party who promise to take very little of that money from them via tax)?
The belief that some people matter less than others?
The belief that life is an equal playing field and that everyone could afford private healthcare and education if only they tried harder?
A conviction that some are born to be art historians and some are born to empty bins?

I don't know. Hard to understand if you don't think that way.

I wish we, first and foremost, had a better state education system. The 6% paying for their education does not stop this from happening. The government wants a small state that doesn't pay for anything except the needs of the very poorest that they cannot blame on the poor themselves.

Calling people names and taking a superior attitude doesn't help. Why do you think it will? Do you think it attracts people to change their views?

How can anybody be of the opinion that its OK to perpetuate a system where the well off get better healthcare, education, social care?

Mainly because there are so many people who only judge people by their income. Anything over average wage and you are classed as a bloated plutocrat educating your children privately, only ever using private health and so on.

But life isn't that simple many 'bloated plutocrats send their children to state schools and use the NHS.

Many ordinary people on standard pensions raid their savings to pay for health care because the NHS either will not or cannot offer them treatment within a reasonable time.

We liver in a complex society where access to various services are not limited to the rich, never properly defined and all sorts of people, on all kinds of incomes dip out of the state and private sector depending on their circumstances and priorities.

If you want a rigidly organised society where everyone is treated equally, (except for a tiny elite) try North Korea.

Galaxy

Yet Bridgewater in Scotswood is one of the best schools I have experienced in my professional capacity

That is now, you should have been in the area 40 years ago.
Convicted paedophile Deputy Head now in Durham Goal.
All Staff screened at N/C General for T.B.as one member was found to have it.
Rampant Shigella/dysentery that half the children caught and members of staff who still have health issues today brought in by children who had visited grandparents abroad and not been examined on return.
Psychologists visit every week.
Teachers threatened to be stabbed by Afghan children who were disturbed with what they had encountered.
Prevention of clubs from integrating of all Races and cultures by local prostitutes who threatened to tell.
A house was burned down by a family playing with matches.
Police visited reception classes to find children who were stealing money out of supermarket trolleys.
Yes, I could really see the Royal children in that environment.
I used it as an example and actually if you note did not name the school, I might add it all happened within two terms.
I'm really glad if things have improved for the staff and especially the children Bridgewater did not exist when I was there.

volver

^I did not call you a communist. But I may call you something else that is proved to be true by the above post and report this if you do not apologise.^

A quote from your post of 11:26 today:

^You seem to want communism where we deprive those with options, just for the sake of it.^

That is not "calling you a communist". It is saying that one policy you are exhorting us all to approve seems to infer a move which takes away choice in that area.

I think anyone, who does see themselves as a Communist, would be pretty miffed to find that people think that this is all it takes.

There is an opinion in this country that our health care and education systems are world beating and it’s difficult to shake peoples belief in that. No matter how bad they both get people still think they’re good. House prices in the village where my daughter lives are very high because it’s in the catchment area of what used to be a very highly rated school. But recently it’s been making the news for all of the wrong reasons and is regarded as sub standard. Thankfully my daughter is an ex teacher and can bring my grandsons education back up to standard but not all parents can do that.

How can anybody be of the opinion that its OK to perpetuate a system where the well off get better healthcare, education, social care?

Lack of imagination?
Resistance to change?
A belief that they and theirs will be alright because they have money (coupled with voting for a party who promise to take very little of that money from them via tax)?
The belief that some people matter less than others?
The belief that life is an equal playing field and that everyone could afford private healthcare and education if only they tried harder?
A conviction that some are born to be art historians and some are born to empty bins?

I don't know. Hard to understand if you don't think that way.

Callistemon21

DaisyAnne

Glorianny

I'm with volver on this. There should be one system and it should educate all children. Then perhaps those with the most influence and the loudest voices would insist that the system was properly funded. I bet the private school the royals attend will offer all sorts of 'extras' not available in the state schools.

I see Cuba was mentioned. It has one of the highest literacy rates in the world.The country with the top literacy rate is Finland. Something going on there?

But there isn't one system Glorianny. If we had such a system, we know that half the country would not want to pay for it. In Finland, where they don't have independent schools, the average single worker faced a net-average tax rate of 30.8% in 2021. In the same year in the UK, the average single worker paid a net-average tax rate of 23.7%.

The British are very disinclined to pay for what they think they should have as a right.

Is it a good or a bad thing, then, that we have many non-British children who come to board at schools in the UK from all around the world?

And, if there were no independent schools which offer boarding facilities, what would happen to the children of British parents who work overseas where the local schools may not be suitable?

There are 40 state boarding schools in England. Fees are charged for boarding but not foe tuition so they are much more affordable for parents working abroad. If there were no private boarding schools this sector would have to expand.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_state_boarding_schools_in_England

volver

^Where did I ask? I never expect people to put personal details on-line and would certainly never ask for them. I think you may have misunderstood or not even read my post if you reached the conclusion that I had any interest whatsoever in your education.^

I’m going to try to explain this in as straightforward as way as I can, because clearly my message is not getting through.

You asked the question How about telling us how we can change the status quo? I went about answering that question by giving you an example of how education worked in Scotland in the Seventies, and how it didn’t depend on choice or selection. I will never put anything on this site that I don’t want others to know. I then suggested that this would be a suitable way for education to work today. I don’t think you have any interest in my education at all, but I did think you might be interested in some examples of how education works in a country where every child is entitled to a good education, irrespective of who they are or where they live. I then mentioned that there are a couple of parties who could make that work, which is also what you asked about. The parties I was thinking about were Scottish Labour and the SNP. The relevant bit is the “Scottish” bit. Because they represent the Scottish way of thinking about education, instead of the apparently English approach of devil take the hindmost. (I acknowledge that someone said upthread that not all English people think the same way.)

Let’s just have schools. There are Grammars, Academies, Comprehensives, Private schools, goodness knows what all. As an outsider, I see a fragmented, broken system that favours the well off or the pushy. Just have schools.

If you do not understand me, it is my fault and I apologise. So thank you for realising in whose hands being clear lies and trying again.

Everything favours the "well-off". It always has and probably always will. So why attack schools or the "class-system" or any small part of what extreme differences in income creates? Perhaps it is more important to ensure that the income gap is as reasonable as possible. You can offer this, expecting people may vote for the sort of government you want. Or you can promise to ban independent schools. Such a manifesto suggestion would turn away those who want it. But it is also likely to lose the vote of those who believe they should have the choice; those who are socially conservative.

Politics is, and always has been, the art of the possible. Getting into power makes many things possible. Not getting into power makes nothing possible.

Oldbat1, many private schools now are staffed by properly qualified and experienced teachers fleeing from the over-burdened state system, whereas the state system is relying increasingly on TAs,' Distance trained 'teachers and a multitude of part-time teachers.
Private schools can also set their own admissions policy; state schools are increasingly having to deal with children in mainstream who would previously have been in Special schools.

www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2021/09/uwc-atlantic-hippie-hogwarts-princess-leonor/amp&ved=2ahUKEwiHycPBwd_5AhXbi1wKHV3CCZIQFnoECAgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0JdZ0WE_hfQQYj2935P-Na

When I started teaching in the 70s I noted that a large proportion of female teachers were there to fund their children’s school fees - as was I.

MaizieD

^Many posters have pointed out that one of the issues that precludes the royal children going to state school is that of security which is probably a valid point.^

A state schools have quite high security measures, and have had for a long time, no-one has explained what extra security measures private schools have which puts them at an advantage. Apart from a mention of 'undercover security', also unexplained... So, unless anyone can clarify this point I'll not regard it as valid...

Seeing as you have asked twice, I used the word undercover to describe someone disguised, who is on occasions acting as a person they are not really. I'll leave you to arrive at a logical conclusion.
As I said before, there is no heightened need for this in most private schools.
Also additional security personnel are provided for the royal children on school trips etc. All as extra safety measures for these children, their classmates, their teachers etc.

My nieces and nephews went to a very expensive private school but they didn’t achieve any better degrees than our children did. I suppose it allowed them access to the old boy network of obtaining jobs not because of results but due to who they know.

volver I have not said that state schools are not good in fact I said the total opposite in one of my posts saying how fortunate we are here to have three very good local state senior schools and several very good primary schools.

I do not care if every state school in the land is as good as or even better than the best private school, I defend mine and others rights to educate their child/children as they wish.

I didnt say the class system was illegal, and there are many things which are legal which are morally questionable. If we are limiting discussion to those who can reply we would only discuss each other and that never works out well.

I did not call you a communist. But I may call you something else that is proved to be true by the above post and report this if you do not apologise.

A quote from your post of 11:26 today:

You seem to want communism where we deprive those with options, just for the sake of it.

To be honest, I don't care GG13. How can anybody be of the opinion that its OK to perpetuate a system where the well off get better healthcare, education, social care? In the situation where we are today, we are all having to do what we need to because of the running down of our institutions - the NHS for instance.

So when people say its better to spend money on education than on "flash cars"; that shouldn't even be a thing. Education should be there for everybody regardless of whether they can afford flash cars or not. People should not have to think they need to work 2 jobs just to get their kids an education.

I know you are in Australia nanna8, but the same kind of thing is said in the UK. Instead of just accepting that State schools are not good so we'll have to pay for private education, why aren't people, saying that we need to fix the State schools?

Don’t forget the longer holidays Oldbat1 which means cheaper flights etc. before the state schools break up for theirs.