Why do British royal children not go to state schools like the Scandanavian royals?

I am working class and so are my family, rather bright actually and I don't know anyone at all who got a bursary and neither does anyone else I know. They are 'apparently' given to people's children whose parents know how to work the system and can afford the extra costs of uniform etc. I have been told this by people who use the local private schools, many of whom are friends.

I feel it is ok for me to post this as people seem to think working class people know how to work the benefits system and how to live off take outs instead of eating lentils.

DaisyAnne yes, this is what many of us want. I imagine, the vast majority, including some of the 7% elite.

''I wish the state schools could be so good that no one needs to close independent schools because they would become redundant.''

So back to the OP, yes, and that would require a clear political choice, as in Skandinavian and other countries. And my point, again, is that, sadly, when those who have money, a voice and influence, have the opt out via their purse, to excellent alternatives, then it just is never a priority. The situation in the UK has very very long historical roots, 500 years and more, and is so so entrenched, and that makes changes very difficult to make.

And my point, again, is that, sadly, when those who have money, a voice and influence, have the opt out via their purse, to excellent alternatives, then it just is never a priority.
Very well put Fleurpepper. Back to my NCDS study, when we were interviewed in our early 30s (1990), the privately educated were earning 7% more than the state educated. By the same stage in life of the next cohort in 2000, the gap had risen dramatically to 21% in favour of the privately educated, so we can see where this is heading.

I am not sure what you mean by Skandinavian and other countries. The only country that has done this is Finland.

It is not surprising, when there is only one country that denies that choice to its citizens, that it is one with strong support for communism even though it would not wish to be a part of a new communist block Putin is trying to achieve. Their political traditions are very different to ours and, in many ways, much further to the extreme left.

It is undemocratic to stop people from spending their properly taxed money how they choose to. What if those wishing to dictate to others, were told they could not help a family member financially to get better care than offered by the state?

This attitude seems particularly extreme, where the government has just about destroyed state-funded care. The treatment of care is worse than the destruction imposed on the state education system. In both cases, we need to change the government to change the state offer. Closing schools is just an undemocratic deflection. We need to work on what the majority will need to use, the majority of the time.

Sorry, my "Quote" disappeared. My last post was in answer to Fleurpepper's (Thu 01-Sep-22 09:24:46)

20:44:42 not the earlier one. Sorry.

It is not surprising, when there is only one country that denies that choice to its citizens, that it is one with strong support for communism even though it would not wish to be a part of a new communist block Putin is trying to achieve. Their political traditions are very different to ours and, in many ways, much further to the extreme left.

It has been my pleasure and privilege to have worked with Finns and in Finland for years. To suggest that they are in any way aligned with communism is a disgusting thing to say, especially with the situation they are facing today. It's not me who's bewildered.

Incidentally, I believe good care should be offered by the state and everybody should expect the same level of care. It's called being humane, not being money-obsessed. You don't need to preach about care to me, not right now.

Incidentally, I believe good care should be offered by the state and everybody should expect the same level of care. It's called being humane, not being money-obsessed.
Who has said everyone should not expect the same level of care? It’s a great ambition.
We don’t get the same level of care-in the “where you live” lottery, but I thought we were discussing education.

Finland has a slightly left centrist government but has a strong right wing movement which has emerged recently.
It believes in a strong welfare state.

but I thought we were discussing education.

Tell DaisyAnne. 21:40 post, third paragraph.

I don't think anyone is saying that state schools should be anything less than excellent and should do their best for all pupils who attend them..

It doesn't mean, imo, that the private system should be abolished.

Mollygo

Incidentally, I believe good care should be offered by the state and everybody should expect the same level of care. It's called being humane, not being money-obsessed.
Who has said everyone should not expect the same level of care? It’s a great ambition.
We don’t get the same level of care-in the “where you live” lottery, but I thought we were discussing education.

Thank you Mollygo. I was saying precisely that, just as I want the best and most appropriate education for all children.

However, we cannot magic these things out of thin air or dream and hope they arrive as some seem to think is possible. Taking things away from those who have them will not help. Proper, progressive taxation will. A government that believes in a cooperative insurance system will. A cooperative insurance system that looks after us all, educates all and cares for all will.

Those are the thing we should be working on - not the chips on a few people's shoulders.

*DaisyAnne^ said "It is undemocratic to stop people from spending their properly taxed money how they choose to. "

If everyone really is to be properly taxed, and fairly taxed whatever their income, the tax due at each level has to be set so that the income from it is enough to pay for the education, health and safety from crime of the population, and the competent administration of all that (and more).

Non-compliance with taxation laws should not be tolerated. Neither should abuse of any other ways of getting financial advantage over the rest of the population.

Your comment on Finland being aligned to communism is way, way out of order.

My post never ever said that Private Schools should be forbidden and closed by force.

And here is your quote ''I wish the state schools could be so good that no one needs to close independent schools because they would become redundant.'' THIS is what I am talking about and THIS is true Democracy. ensuring that the 93% gets the same quality of education (and never mind the polo, ponies or golf course).

I won't ask, as it would be too personal, but I do wonder what your link to Private Edu- if you actually teach in one, or 'just' as a parent as your views are so entrenched. But, as said, I will just wonder.

Mollygo

Incidentally, I believe good care should be offered by the state and everybody should expect the same level of care. It's called being humane, not being money-obsessed.
Who has said everyone should not expect the same level of care? It’s a great ambition.
We don’t get the same level of care-in the “where you live” lottery, but I thought we were discussing education.

Mollygo
What was suggested is that we remove the opportunity of choice in Education because we have underfunded and, in some areas, unavailable State Education provisions.

Most debating this subject would think it reasonable to compare this to State Provision in other areas; that is what I did. It would not surprise me if we discovered that those wanting to take away any privately provided education would or have paid for services unavailable within other State sectors. They may well have paid for State services, such as dentistry. Shouldn't you be telling them that they must make their children go without these services until we return to State provision if you are to be true to your argument on State provision?

Some of those debating this subject put forward the erroneous idea that in no instance do those paying, support the State sector. If this isn't true of those paying for Medical Care, Dental Care or Social Care then why should it be true of Education?

I do hope this clarifies the argument I was using. I did not intend to confuse you. It is the Conservative government and those who gave it power that are and have been the enablers of the almost total collapse of some of our State provisions.

THIS is what I am talking about and THIS is true Democracy. ensuring that the 93% gets the same quality of education and never mind the polo, ponies or golf course.
True, but I often wonder if given just that quality education, many people would still be moaning that they don't also get the extra frills.

Well, that would be a great start. Same for living accommodation and health care. I can assure you few will complain about having no polo field, poney boarding with them for the week, or a golf course. Honest.

Democracy is looking after the needs of the 93% not the 7%. That should be very clear. And that does NOT represent 'communism' either.

Fleurpepper

Your comment on Finland being aligned to communism is way, way out of order.

My post never ever said that Private Schools should be forbidden and closed by force.

And here is your quote ''I wish the state schools could be so good that no one needs to close independent schools because they would become redundant.'' THIS is what I am talking about and THIS is true Democracy. ensuring that the 93% gets the same quality of education (and never mind the polo, ponies or golf course).

I won't ask, as it would be too personal, but I do wonder what your link to Private Edu- if you actually teach in one, or 'just' as a parent as your views are so entrenched. But, as said, I will just wonder.

It may be wrong (or not) Fleurpepper; it is not "out of order". You are not the Speaker of Parliament and do not get to decide that. Perhaps we could keep this polite?

I disagree with your view on democracy. I believe that denying people the choices you want to deny them is socialism verging on communism. I am sure it is clear that I do not agree with this politically. I have a right to hold that view. Shouting at me and hinting at personal information you would hope to find disparaging (which I wouldn't be surprised to find I have volunteered earlier in the thread) is not going to make me change my mind. Decent debate and informative posts may well do.

I am usefully busy this morning. My time this morning is better spent helping someone who needs that help. I will answer, if there are reasoned posts, later.

It is out of order to say that Finland is aligned to Communism, as it is very clearly wrong. That is not an 'opinion' but a fact. So it is not rude to say so, sorry. Opinions can vary, and that is fair enough, but facts are just that, facts.

How can you disagree that the needs of 7% are more important than those of 93% - in any Democracy.

Nowhere have I said private schools should be banished. I have said that all children deserve a good education, and that it is a political choice. Please, do not distort what I am saying. I have said that the Charity status should be abolished, and that state education should be of such quality as to make private schools naturally redundant. In fact, I think it was you who said it, and I agreed.

I don't think private schools will ever become redundant; some pupils will always need to board unless you can improve schools around the word.
People work overseas for whatever reason but send their children back to the UK to be educated at boarding schools.

Around the world

''What alliance does Finland belong to?
In 1994, Finland joined NATO's Partnership for Peace; the country is also an observer in the North Atlantic Cooperation Council. Finland became a full member of the EU in January 1995, at the same time acquiring observer status in the EU's defence arm, the Western European Union.''

Democracy, by its very definition, is about the rights and needs of the majority. 83% (not 93, sorry) is a vast majority over 17%.

As said, I have experienced both sides. Over many generations, close family members have attended the very best of Public and Private schools, many boarding, and my own GCs and all my nephews and nieces currently attend top private schools.

It is out of order to say that Finland is aligned to Communism, as it is very clearly wrong. That is not an 'opinion' but a fact. So it is not rude to say so, sorry. Opinions can vary, and that is fair enough, but facts are just that, facts.

But I did not say that, did I Fleurpepper. I specifically pointed out that it is not nor does it want to be. If you copy and paste you may get it correct. When you can quote, you can criticise.

Rather than attack, you might have asked what I meant, then we both might have learned something.

Callistemon21

I don't think private schools will ever become redundant; some pupils will always need to board unless you can improve schools around the word.
People work overseas for whatever reason but send their children back to the UK to be educated at boarding schools.

Nor do I Callistemon, although they will dwindle if our system is good enough. But then, banning independent schools isn't the problem; we are not communists (yet). Our current challenge is with the far-right attempt to make "state anything" as poor as possible. Stop that, and you will be able to give and get a good education.

You will never be able to give all the advantages of wealth - unless the suggestion is that we all earn the same. Perhaps this is why this country worships everyone appearing to be uniform. However, if the will is there, much can be done to take people out of their environment. Then it's possible to see things we didn't know existed.

It is my belief, my bias, that neither extreme will do the best for us but, as I have said before, being a (democratic) centrist is not a comfortable place to be.

Your words ''It is not surprising, when there is only one country that denies that choice to its citizens, that it is one with strong support for communism''