Why do British royal children not go to state schools like the Scandanavian royals?

volver

GrannyGravy13

volver

Our children had the education/school that suited them at the time as do our grandchildren, and I will do my very best to keep that choice.

And hell l mend the rest of you?

Sometimes I get a flash of clarity about why the Tories keep getting in south of the border.

I get the impression that you would like the Asian version of schools, prescribed hair cut, learning by rote and churning out little carbon copies.

The rich Asians send their children abroad to private schools, as they can see the advantages of choice.

You get the wrong impression then. Kids can have blue hair and wear what they like as far as I'm concerned.

As long as everybody who would benefit from it gets a good education. And it doesn't depend on how rich daddy is. Or even how "comfortable" daddy is.

The discussion obviously shouldn't "depend" on how sexist the posters are. You are unleashing your venom on individuals Volver. That tends to suggest you have run out of your argument.

How about telling us how we can change the status quo? We could then attract the parents of the 6% of privately educated children to their local schools. Then you could suggest how we find a party that can/would bring that about.

You seem to want communism where we deprive those with options, just for the sake of it. When did that improve the fate of all? It just moved power and wealth into another set of hands. Politics is about persuasion, not about beating people over the head with a big stick of sneers and inverted snobbery.

I dont think changing the school system is communism though. I would not for one moment suggest the labour party put abolishing private schools in their manifesto but once they gain power I would quite like them to look at the inequalities in the school system.

What a bizarre post DaisyAnne

But seeing as you ask...

I went to school across the road from my parents' house. The next nearest secondary school was 16 miles away. There was no "choice", or trying to get into the best secondary for my needs...because everyone was in together. The school in my town took every child and streamed them for each individual subject. We all turned into doctors, vets, oil industry executives, diplomats and goodness knows what. No selection involved. One girl I know went to private school 30 miles away, travelling everyday. We all thought it was very odd.

Where was this socialist and communist paradise? Well, Scotland of course. So, if you want to change the status quo in your elitist, snobby country, look at how education worked in Scotland in the seventies. I could name a few parties that could bring it about, but you can probably guess who they are.

And do move on from calling me a communist, its a very sad state of affairs.

Incidentally I have lots of arguments left. None of them sexist, no matter how much people try to discredit them. ?

Galaxy

I dont think changing the school system is communism though. I would not for one moment suggest the labour party put abolishing private schools in their manifesto but once they gain power I would quite like them to look at the inequalities in the school system.

I didn't say changing the school system was communism, though, Galaxy. I did say that Volver's attitude to such a change sounded as if she wanted communism, i.e. a state that dictates. That's very different.

Your summary of what and how you want things done sounds very reasonable; I doubt many would have problems with that. However, you need a Labour government (or a Centre-Left Pact) as the Conservatives will just put less money into education and find a group (that isn't them) to blame. How we get that government is, to me, far more worthy of thought than the hostile comments about the Royals, MPs or other parents.

volver

What a bizarre post DaisyAnne

But seeing as you ask...

I went to school across the road from my parents' house. The next nearest secondary school was 16 miles away. There was no "choice", or trying to get into the best secondary for my needs...because everyone was in together. The school in my town took every child and streamed them for each individual subject. We all turned into doctors, vets, oil industry executives, diplomats and goodness knows what. No selection involved. One girl I know went to private school 30 miles away, travelling everyday. We all thought it was very odd.

Where was this socialist and communist paradise? Well, Scotland of course. So, if you want to change the status quo in your elitist, snobby country, look at how education worked in Scotland in the seventies. I could name a few parties that could bring it about, but you can probably guess who they are.

And do move on from calling me a communist, its a very sad state of affairs.

Incidentally I have lots of arguments left. None of them sexist, no matter how much people try to discredit them. ?

Where did I ask? I never expect people to put personal details on-line and would certainly never ask for them. I think you may have misunderstood or not even read my post if you reached the conclusion that I had any interest whatsoever in your education.

Many posters have pointed out that one of the issues that precludes the royal children going to state school is that of security which is probably a valid point.

Nevertheless, I still think that the private school system props up all sorts of divisions and privileges and to a certain extent so do the very best of state schools. I imagine that widening gap will become more evident as a result of the pandemic. I know of at least a couple of children who are in the private sector who still received the very best of teaching via Zoom or whatever during the lockdown, my grandchildren in the state sector well they received nothing like that, hit and miss would be my view.

I admit to being somewhat out of touch as far as senior schools are concerned, my children are now in their 30s so all that was a while ago. Someone up thread mentioned the schools Tony Blair's children went to, I know something of those because my step grandchildren went to them, it is a prerequisite that pupils are practising catholics. I know many have issues with faith schools as they do with private schools. They have been at times regarded as elitist, I don't know whether that is fair or not, I was told that at least 25% of their intake came from the poorest demographic in the catchment area. What I do know, certainly at the time step gc were there, is that the low level disruption that my children's school a few miles away ineffectively wrestled with, would not have been tolerated at either of the schools the Blair kids attended. For starters mobile phones weren't allowed, any disruption would have been dealt with by the parents being summoned and it would have been pointed out that there would be umpteen others who would be happy to take their child's place if things didn't improve, the scramble for places , were and imagine still are immense. They were pretty strict about things that were treated in a laissez faire lackadaisical way and written off as par for the course as far as I can see from my experiences. I guess that would be an issue that parents who endorse the private sector, possibly knowing how much teaching time in the day is lost taken in conjunction with larger pupils class sizes. I remember Alistair Campbell criticising the Blairs for sending their offspring to these schools as it entailed a lengthy journey across London, his point of view was that they should have supported a more local and less esteemed school and could, with their considerable influence made it better.

David Cameron and his "we're all in it together mate" put their kids in the state system to beef up their "we're just ordinary" credentials. Nine jobs Osborne soon had his out and into the private sector after a year or so, Cameron kept it going I believe whilst he was in office, but I read at a later stage that they had been moved to the private sector when he no longer had to convince anyone that life was a level playing field Money buys choices we all know that and there are loads of people who know they are completely precluded from doing the best for their children as much as they would like to.

Maizie
For us personally, we had one very academic child, one who did sport to a high level, requiring daily training, and one extremely dyslexic, the same school wouldn’t have suited them all.

The royal family sustains a class system though so I think its fine to critique them as well. Again not something I want Starmer to pop in the manifesto but perfectly reasonable for randoms on the internet to talk about.

Of course how good a state school is will often depend a great deal on the area. IIRC the Miliband brothers both attended Holland Park Comprehensive - that is an extremely expensive area now and I doubt it was a rough area even then.

Around here (outer SW London) we have grammar schools and some very good state primaries - needless to say house prices are sky high, so as so often, there’s a lot of selection by parental means/income.

One of Mr Attlee's few mistakes in the post-war Labour government was not abolishing the public (private) schools which are socially divisive and unfairly advantaged as charities. Of course, he went to Haileybury so he may have been biassed. Too many Labour MPs like Diane Abbott sent children to public schools. A very high proportion of people in top jobs went to public school which confirms the unfair advantages they confer. Our awful PM went to Eton.

The one overriding fault with state schools in the UK is that reasonable standards of behavior are not enforced, many (most) other nations including the third world do.

It’s very hard to learn, even harder to teach when discipline is ignored, it’s nothing to do with deprivation, it’s because nobody cares.

I think you also have to understand how the progression from a prep school to one of the top independents works. If William and Catherine are thinking of say Eton, Harrow, Wellington Marlborough etc then they need to be sure that the prep school the children attend has 100% pass rate success to the top senior schools. I'm not just talking academically. The prep school has to have excellent relationships with the senior schools, that's why many Heads are invited to speech days and events at the prep school.Lambrook is fortunate to enjoy excellent relationships with many top Senior Schools. If an 11 year old falls short in the entrance exams but has other attributes they can still be given a place on the Heads' recommendation and of course the all important interview.

Where did I ask? I never expect people to put personal details on-line and would certainly never ask for them. I think you may have misunderstood or not even read my post if you reached the conclusion that I had any interest whatsoever in your education.

I’m going to try to explain this in as straightforward as way as I can, because clearly my message is not getting through.

You asked the question How about telling us how we can change the status quo? I went about answering that question by giving you an example of how education worked in Scotland in the Seventies, and how it didn’t depend on choice or selection. I will never put anything on this site that I don’t want others to know. I then suggested that this would be a suitable way for education to work today. I don’t think you have any interest in my education at all, but I did think you might be interested in some examples of how education works in a country where every child is entitled to a good education, irrespective of who they are or where they live. I then mentioned that there are a couple of parties who could make that work, which is also what you asked about. The parties I was thinking about were Scottish Labour and the SNP. The relevant bit is the “Scottish” bit. Because they represent the Scottish way of thinking about education, instead of the apparently English approach of devil take the hindmost. (I acknowledge that someone said upthread that not all English people think the same way.)

Let’s just have schools. There are Grammars, Academies, Comprehensives, Private schools, goodness knows what all. As an outsider, I see a fragmented, broken system that favours the well off or the pushy. Just have schools.

Joseanne

I think you also have to understand how the progression from a prep school to one of the top independents works. If William and Catherine are thinking of say Eton, Harrow, Wellington Marlborough etc then they need to be sure that the prep school the children attend has 100% pass rate success to the top senior schools. I'm not just talking academically. The prep school has to have excellent relationships with the senior schools, that's why many Heads are invited to speech days and events at the prep school.Lambrook is fortunate to enjoy excellent relationships with many top Senior Schools. If an 11 year old falls short in the entrance exams but has other attributes they can still be given a place on the Heads' recommendation and of course the all important interview.

I know I was objecting to DaisyAnne calling me a communist but this would turn anyone to communism.

It's not what you know, its who you know and how well informed (pushy?) your parents are.

They interview 11 year olds?

There are Private schools in Norway, they have been permitted since 2005 and are increasing in popularity.
The health care and education is generally very good unfortunately the cost of living is very high.

I doubt the majority of MP’s went to public school

Interesting stats here Annie

www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjqn7GUtd_5AhWOQEEAHYw-CSYQFnoECA0QAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gov.uk%2Fgovernment%2Fnews%2Felitism-in-britain-2019&usg=AOvVaw17q8nQ-yPqh_Pzd3F1NChh

They interview 11 year olds?
They sure do. And many of their answers would knock spots off any politician, (especially Rishi and his answers about climate change!)

Joseanne

^They interview 11 year olds?^
They sure do. And many of their answers would knock spots off any politician, (especially Rishi and his answers about climate change!)

When I was 11 I was more interested in the Bay City Rollers and playing netball. Sounds like we're turning out an army of Sixtus Rees Moggs.

I wonder if they come up with the answers themselves or if they are coached. Hmm...

Many posters have pointed out that one of the issues that precludes the royal children going to state school is that of security which is probably a valid point.

A state schools have quite high security measures, and have had for a long time, no-one has explained what extra security measures private schools have which puts them at an advantage. Apart from a mention of 'undercover security', also unexplained... So, unless anyone can clarify this point I'll not regard it as valid...

Galaxy

The royal family sustains a class system though so I think its fine to critique them as well. Again not something I want Starmer to pop in the manifesto but perfectly reasonable for randoms on the internet to talk about.

The Class System is not illegal. We may not like it; we may want change. However, attacking some who benefit from it will not bring that about.

Perhaps that is not what this thread under "Education" is concerned with. Perhaps, it's just another attack thread, the like of which usually appears under "chat". Chat could easily be changed and called "I am entitled to my opinion, particularly if it means I can insult others who are not here to reply".

Perhaps those that offer personal criticism towards people who, it seems to me, can do nothing to change the system could let us know how they would do to set about changing it. That does not seem on offer at the moment so where are these conversations taking us? Won't we just be having the same ones again and again?

DaisyAnne I see it as just another way to have a go at any Gransnetters who confess to being comfortably off and using that to help their children.

It also crops up repeatedly regarding private health insurance/care.

Some people have very strong and sincerely held opinions about whether some aspects of life should only be available to those with money or power. Things like healthcare, education, etc.

Some people take the attitude than anybody who criticises people for pulling up the drawbridge must be jealous, what else could it be?

It could be a social conscience, maybe?

Spending money on education seems a whole lot better than spending it on houses and flash cars. Not all parents of private school pupils are rich,they may live in an area where the state schools are poor and so they choose to do the best they can by their offspring. When our children went to private schools we both had 2 jobs each to help pay the fees. Worth every penny.

volver

Some people have very strong and sincerely held opinions about whether some aspects of life should only be available to those with money or power. Things like healthcare, education, etc.

Some people take the attitude than anybody who criticises people for pulling up the drawbridge must be jealous, what else could it be?

It could be a social conscience, maybe?

I have a social conscience, as do my friends and family, being comfortable financially does not mean not caring for others.

In fact it’s an insult volver to suggest otherwise