Did you have elocution lessons ?

Yes, same here in a way. My parents had very flat RP accents, and never used local accent or words. So I worked hard at acquiring 'street speak' to fit in with the local kids. But being able to switch from one to the other, has been very useful in many ways.

At the age of 12 years I got a scholarship to attend a Stage School in Central London. Half day normal lesson, other half drama, dance, etc. etc. Loved it there.
BUT......they detested my East London/Essex accent, and they and I worked hard to change it into what was then (early 1950's), BBC English.

Sadly I left there after taking a few GCE's early at the age of 15 and got a job in an apprentice Hackney Hairdressers. MY acquired accent caused me to be very bullied. So, I then worked vey hard to rid myself of that.

There have been many times since that I wish that I had been stronger and kept that accent, I speak reasonably well and clearly, but East London is always there.

All sorts I quite agree with you about Miriam. I actually think talking nice does not detract from being a vulgar person.

Think Miriam a vulgar person, however she speaks.

Yes. Non native English speakers may have difficulties with where the stress fall on a word or phrase and that may have to be specifically taught.

I think elocution lessons can be very helpful if you are learning English and have problems with pronunciation.

Haha! I had unofficial elocution lessons when I was 11 and just relocated from Wirral to Hertfordshire. The lessons consisted of getting me to say "Potato Puffs" then hitting me while falling about laughing for some reason.

The lessons didn't take. I still to this day pronounce 'grass' and 'butter' correctly, the way Chaucer and Shakespeare would have pronounced them, rather than use hideously-mutilated Home Counties vowels.

And us northern types never came from somewhere called 'Oop North', with 'Oop' presumably rhyming with 'poop' and 'book'. We come from Up North, and not as the nesh southerners say, 'Ap Nawth"!

Yes , but not for long - perhaps a term as they were expensive
( guineas ! ) and frankly , all we did was learn great chunks of poetry whilst the teacher ( who also "taught " drama ) smoked through our reciting with a glazed , bored look and complete indifference .

I can recall a teacher suggesting to my Dad that I had elocution lessons as my accent would certainly 'hold me back'....to this day I'm unsure of his response as he asked me to wait outside for him but I have a feeling it wasn't as polite as it could have been!
Despite having left Liverpool many years ago...I still have my accent and I'm still quite proud of it.

Also our school was in central London.

Sorry. I had forgotten I had posted before.

In the 1950’s we had “speech lessons” at school. They were introduced during our last three years in school. We were taught by an older actress and were enjoyable. We were taught how to breathe correctly, throw our voices and recite and read with expression. We were also given the opportunity to pass some exams which were judged by a group from the Central School of Speech and drama. For this we had to read from a book we knew and which the judges selected a page, we then had to act a short part from( remember I was Queen Victoria in one). Read a poem such as For the Fallen and then had to engage in conversation with one of the judges. The secret was to keep going even if you knew little about the subject selected by the judge. It was fun and really useful in later life when I became a teacher.

Having elocution lessons can certainly benefit if applying for certain jobs. It was encouraged years ago but in reality people with big families could not afford them. I don’t think they were a priority in inner city state schools or even smaller urban schools.
The closest I got to speaking (accent free) was repeating the lines when audio typing at secretarial college. It was nice precise spoken English but it wasn’t going to alter my Liverpool accent. I never did have the ambition to be a housekeeper either.

correct - "ner snew" means "no snow".

Oh, and another example, "ner shew" means "no snow".

My mum did as her mum.Nan wanted her to be a "lady' to get a "good husband".

So we didn't get lessons, as mum thwarted Nan's plan.

But of course mum did speak home counties/lite (she never stopped talking....) so we picked up a lot but not barth and parth. I still have my home town accent (Hull) and you can spot it where I say, "telefern" not telephone.

An interesting thread - I’d not noticed it till its revival.

I was brought up in North East England and if anyone going to my grammar had elocution lessons it must have been on the quiet. I was a miner’s daughter and can’t imagine any of the middle class girls there daring to mock our accents.

When I moved down to West Yorkshire years later though these classes seemed to have been a “thing”, and I was really surprised at how many women had had them at 10 or 11 (not men though ).

I missed out on the deportment lessons at my grammar, which were discontinued the year before I started. Apparently there were competitions and the winners got to wear special “girdles” (cloth belts).

I had elocution lessons in my first year at grammar school because I had developed a stammer. They made no difference. But I was bullied in the playground at both the primary and grammar school for 'talking posh'! I spoke in the RP accent my mother had acquired after being elocuted out of her 'sarf London' dialect at her own grammar school You can't win.

My goodness, that post was from September last year!

Well, Margaret, that was her name- was just lovely. She came to my office to introduce herself and say she was always in the Cantine if I needed anything. She told me she was the 'char' lady, because she made the 'cha'. SHE taught me the word, and so many more from the Potteries, as well as expressions, with the local accent. And invited me to her home for 'tea', and was so lovely. I can assure you she never ever found me condescending. Neither did all my other colleagues.

But you scrolled back pages to find this post. Not sure if this is hilarious, and something else?

When I went to work in the West Midlands, the char lady and the engineers used to love coming to my office to teach me how to 'speak proper like what they did

“Char lady” (sic) ' - OMG how patronising!
For anybody who may be unfamiliar with this unreconstructed designation
Charwoman Occupation
Description
A charwoman is an old-fashioned occupational term , referring to a paid part-time worker who comes into a house or other building to clean it for a few hours of a day or week, as opposed to a maid, who usually lives as part of the household within the structure of domestic service.

Grammar school taught me how to speak without a specialist elocution teacher because the teachers spoke well. Richard Hoggart's 'The uses of literacy' is very interesting on how working class children learnt a different register at grammar schools and pre-dates Bragg's book.

Fleurpepper

"Around the rugged rocks the ragged rascals ran."

how do you say that with a Scouse accent, please - lol

Fleurpepper I was the other side of the Pennines!
One of the things I was taught about how not to speak was
What's the matter?
Pigs in t'water.
Not only was the "the" removed-a major sin- but water was pronounced "watter" to rhyme with "matter"
Lucy Beaumont does a lovely bit of teaching the audience how to speak "Hull"
Say Mamma. audience repeats Say Mia repeat-Say Mamma Mia-repeat
You've now learned to say "Mother I've arrived" with a Hull accent

Speech training not trading ?

We had “speech trading” in the fifties. We learned to project our voices, to breathe correctly, to sound our vowels correctly. It included reading aloud plays etc. Then we had an examination set by the Central School ofSpeech and Drama. I still have two certificates somewhere in the depths of the past. We had to act out a passage of drama, recite a poem, talk uninterrupted to the examiners on something they suggested. If you didn’t know much about the suggestion the trick was to keep going even if you didn’t know much about it.

Some dialects and some local accents are low status, for historical reasons. That is why parents and schools sometimes discourage these dialects and accents. This form of snobbery is slowly changing to more enlightened views and educational practises.