We have pooled thoughts on the NHS, how about education?

foxie 48 How about extending private education to more children rather than trying to reduce numbers in the private sector? I seem to remember something called the assisted places scheme which was closed down by Tony Blair. Maybe a deal to be done ?

I don’t agree that very wealthy families necessarily have extremely bright children. Maybe more likely that children tend to follow parents into similar professions.

There’s a real conversation to be had about widening social equality if only individual bias and prejudice were set aside.

Good post foxie48. Actually most independent schools would be quite happy to give up their charitable status. It is a bit of pain for little benefit. You are right that reduced business rates is of far greater benefit, though that might be set to change.

"I doubt it will do (little ) much to enhance the educational opportunities of those in the state system

volver

Amazingly enough, you don't have to be an expert educationalist to understand that schools that only allow you in if you have enough money are probably not going to give the brightest kids the best start in life. Which probably means that we don't get the best society we could possibly have because we are side-lining the people who might benefit from the best education they can get.

So I don't know....

How about we stop pretending that buying an education is OK if you have the money (often called "freedom of choice" on GN) and make a political decisions to support schools properly, instead of, oh, I don't know, pretending fee paying schools are charities?

Most Independent schools have entrance exams at either 11 or 13, some take only the very brightest children eg St Paul's (boys and girls) Westminster, Brighton College etc. I know it's difficult to accept but some wealthy families have extremely bright children and those "very bright" children not only get an excellent academic education they also benefit from all the additional advantages that wealth brings. In England 80% of sec schools and 40+% of primaries are academies and therefore reg as charities, if you add in all the voluntary aided schools such as church schools, the special needs schools that are also registered, that's an awful lot of schools funded by the state that are benefiting from reduced business rates etc and really complicates things. This is why I think it would be better to find ways to ensure that all fee paying schools with charity status demonstrate clearly how they benefit the public. fwiw if the LP do find a way of removing charitable status, the very wealthy will just pay the extra fees , some schools will close and as most are in the home counties where this is already a shortage of school places I doubt it will do little to enhance the educational opportunities of those in the state system but I'd like to be proved wrong. I've added a link to a Sutton Trust report which I think is very interesting
www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/ASSISTEDPLACESREPORT0310.pdf

ronib

Well no personal attack here. Volver and I are in complete agreement.

You may think that ronib. I couldn't possibly comment.

Thanks for your support Fleurpepper

Well no personal attack here. Volver and I are in complete agreement.

Personal attacks, again and again- because Vover does not agree with you.

Are you responsible for decisions of the Scottish parliament now volver? I wish I had known that

Volver do tell

You think it was an enquiry? Bless!

Okay Volver and? What is the outcome of your enquiry?

How do you know I haven't?

Those that really know something about this will realise that in these circumstances, that quote isn't just from Burns.

Perhaps you could take it up with the Scottish Parliament then?

Till the rocks melt wi’ the sun … so poetic. Bless!

University tuition should be free for those who would benefit. Till the rocks melt wi' the sun.

That's it.

Volver this notion of buying education - does it include paying for university tuition?
I know that the Scottish government is making it harder for home grown Scottish students to have places at Scottish universities (which are excellent) because overseas students are paying higher fees. Therefore Scottish students are paying full tuition fees in England. That’s okay by you?

Oh OK. So a politician.

Amazingly enough, you don't have to be an expert educationalist to understand that schools that only allow you in if you have enough money are probably not going to give the brightest kids the best start in life. Which probably means that we don't get the best society we could possibly have because we are side-lining the people who might benefit from the best education they can get.

So I don't know....

How about we stop pretending that buying an education is OK if you have the money (often called "freedom of choice" on GN) and make a political decisions to support schools properly, instead of, oh, I don't know, pretending fee paying schools are charities?

volver

Well I would, but somebody might call me a socialist.

I prefer Scot, but that's just me.

Don’t be put off by what people might call you. Just share your ideas of how to make schools fit for everybody.
They’ll either think you’re a genius if you share your ideas and they’re are workable, or a politician, if you don’t share something workable but just talk about it.

Well I would, but somebody might call me a socialist.

I prefer Scot, but that's just me.

volver

I'd try to make sure schools were fit for everybody.

Radical, eh?

🤣🤣🤣
That’s a novel idea. Let us in on the secret of how you’d do that.

I'd try to make sure schools were fit for everybody.

Radical, eh?

According to my DGC’s reports, Art and music are still taught and assessed up to the age of 14. After that they are taught if children select them as GCSE options.

I do not blame parents for home schooling their children or sending them to a private school.

My daughter went to a very good primary school just a stone’s throw away from our house but the secondary school in our catchment area is one of the worst school in our town, some of the students came from very rough neighbourhood

I now understand why other parents lie, use their sister’s or friend’s address for registration or write begging letters to send their children to a good state secondary school.

If I knew then what I know now, I would have simply move house to a better catchment area and take my daughter out of that school altogether.

Schools also must return to teaching subjects like woodworking, art, sewing and music properly to give children who are not "bookish" a chance to be top of the class in subjects that are not predominantly learned from books

There is no necessity to teach anything like those skills. Anyone interested can learn from the internet and youtube how to make and fix things.

Art and music should be available to all children they are important in creating independent and original thinking and not something that should be restricted to the less academically able.

Children who are not academic or "bookish" can often appreciate and understand things although they may not produce work of a high standard. Their work is no indication of their lack of ability to appreciate anything and there is absolutely no reason to restrict access to practical work only.

I should have also pointed out that it was in ALL lessons.