Compulsory Maths till you’re 18.

What does Sunak mean by Maths?
I suspect he means arithmetic.
And learning how to understand/use percentages.

Stuff like that that's useful for everyday life

Yes, I think so too. However, if someone doesn't know all that after 12 years in education, are they going to learn, especially if they're not interested?

Those who are interested and want to take Maths at A level will already have absorbed all that information anyway.

growstuff

So why do so many people (including some on GN) misunderstand averages?

PS. It's a bit of an obsession of mine!

Because they are fairly abstract ideas and because there's 'average' and 'mean' and people get confused.

Many people also don't understand, for example, that if you quote a figure for a nation's average annual income, what it means is that most people earn less than that.

It's still a useful measure though.

It's not going to happen anyway.

It's all pie (pi?) in the sky!

Mollygo

Blossoming

I think basic literacy and numeracy should be taught to all. Appropriate provision should be made for pupils struggling with either.

In primary school, huge efforts are made to do exactly that. We have had training in using strategies to address dyslexia and dyscalculia. Strategies which
address the needs of pupils with either but are useful for all pupils.
I’d love to know what GNs class as basic maths and basic literacy.
Would we have total agreement or would each Gransnetter have their own views about what constitutes basic?

Yet many pupils leave school without those skills. So it appears that there isn’t appropriate provision.

So why do so many people (including some on GN) misunderstand averages?

PS. It's a bit of an obsession of mine!

And learning how to understand/use percentages.

Stuff like that that's useful for everyday life.

What does Sunak mean by Maths?

I suspect he means arithmetic.

Growstuff, thanks for your comment about what you’d have on the basic maths list. Averages are taught in upper key stage two and extended in KS3. Perhaps it could include how the use of averages is portrayed in the media to raise awareness if that you say.
Any more GNs willing to add their ideas of what should be taught in basic maths.

What does Sunak mean by Maths?

Does he mean pure Maths or Applied Maths?
Does he mean a post-GCSE course in the type of Maths everyone requires for everyday living? Most people can apply GCSE level maths to their everyday lives.

Will Arts students have to carry on with Maths even if they have passed it at GCSE level and it seems irrelevant to their futures to learn more?

I’m guessing more maths in schools isn’t top of the public’s wish list for this government to be focussing on. Maths and physics is increasingly taught by non specialists in schools , so enforcing extra classes is going to be the spare capacity teachers drafted in. Not always a problem I know - but it depends what type of maths the PM is envisioning? Do we all need to know about calculus , advanced geometry etc or would understanding interest rates, apr , mortgages etc be more useful?

Shinamae

FannyCornforth

Or perhaps we could bring back National Service; but instead of it being in the military, it would be NHS based

Great idea Fanny! 👏🏻👏🏻

I acknowledge the sentiment, but would the NHS really want an influx of untrained conscripts? The armed forces are mostly very clear about this as far as I know - they don't want national service

You know what I think Mollygo. I'd like everybody to understand the mathematical terminology which comes up in everyday life. I'd like people to understand that when a newspaper article states that (for example) average nurses' pay is £xxx, the mean is skewed by people at the top and doesn't mean that all nurses earn £xxx. I'd also like everybody to understand the meaning of words like "exponential" ... that's for starters. Living on £334.91 a month might be quite a useful skill too.

However, my guess is that as this seems to be Sunak's baby, he wants people to understand how to make zillions out of 5p.

I somehow have a picture of the cabinet sitting round the table discussing what they haven't already screwed up and had to abandon.And some bright spark shouting "Education"! and another adding "Maths!"

I actually think it’s terrible to make non-academic pupils stay on at school until they’re 18,far better they are released to go to a technical college and learn a skill…. my son was not at all academic, he found a job at 16 and I took him out of school he has been with the same firm now for 20 years and is an excellent bricklayer earning excellent money..(The school had threatened me with court but I explain to them that he was not at all academic and probably was not even taking any notice in class and this was a far better option for him, it wasn’t as though he was laying in bed all day at home he actually had a job and I never heard any more about it )

Blossoming

I think basic literacy and numeracy should be taught to all. Appropriate provision should be made for pupils struggling with either.

In primary school, huge efforts are made to do exactly that. We have had training in using strategies to address dyslexia and dyscalculia. Strategies which
address the needs of pupils with either but are useful for all pupils.
I’d love to know what GNs class as basic maths and basic literacy.
Would we have total agreement or would each Gransnetter have their own views about what constitutes basic?

FannyCornforth

Or perhaps we could bring back National Service; but instead of it being in the military, it would be NHS based

Great idea Fanny! 👏🏻👏🏻

I suppose it’s what you mean by maths. The sort of maths my GS is doing would be required for a range of professional careers, but not equate to the numerical skills you would need to get a qualification in the building, electrical or plumbing trades - and you can’t get a “ticket” without those qualifications. If he’s talking about numerical skills for vocational qualifications, so that all pupils leaving school are numerate, I’m all for it. Not sure how the eighteen would work though. I was hopeless at maths when I was at school and so was my son. He found his maths mojo when he was in his twenties and I never found mine at all!

Ridiculous idea and quite frankly, just a distraction from more pressing problems which the government would rather ignore!

nanna8

You just wonder what business it is of governments to set curriculums, unless you happen to live in a communist country or a right wing dictatorship. They should concentrate on sorting out all the health problems and financial problems first.

Indeed it is not their business. Just like school governors, their role is to set the strategic direction of education in terms of how it is funded and organised.

This political interference in the curriculum by non-professionals has already given us the Gove-led curriculum that is proving so troublesome. If teachers were saying this would be a good thing and initiating this, it would be different. But these out-of-touch privately-educated politicians, who have no idea of what teaching is about in practice on the ground, need to stop their pronouncements and let the profession get on with its job.

There is already a massive shortage of maths teachers. Has RS a plan to solve this? Has he any idea where the majority of pupils stand on this? Does he not think that some pupils will be put off FE is they are forced to do more maths? Has he indeed thought about this at all, or consulted with the profession?

I think the nature of the maths taught is important. For some students pure maths is appropriate, but for the vast majority there needs to be practical arithmetic that will prove useful in their future lives and hopefully they will have had this teaching pre-GCSE.

One of my DDs simply could not do maths as dictated by the curriculum. She failed to pass GCSE 3 times - she got a D each time, so this meant that she was not wholly ignorant on the subject, but failed to achieve the desired C. When she was at 6th form, she was forced to continue to try and achieve this, and it was the bane of her life. In the end I spoke to the teacher and said: "Look, she is a D as far as maths is concerned. We have 3 results as evidence of this. She accepts that this is her level. What are we trying to achieve here?" She was allowed to drop maths.

She was offered an unconditional place at a Russell Group university and achieved an MA. She now runs a highly successful business with her OH.

I’m so glad I’m not an old cynic. I might have thought this was a distraction tactic by the government.

I think basic literacy and numeracy should be taught to all. Appropriate provision should be made for pupils struggling with either.

I had to teach maths to young sec school students for a few weeks because no one else there could ( the maths teacher left) . In a way it was quite good because I told them I wasn’t too good at it and was only filling in and we would help each other. Worked a dream, they were very motivated . Sometimes in teaching it is good if you are only a couple of lessons ahead, you know what their difficulties are likely to be! Mind you, I certainly wouldn’t have put my hand up for VCE, A level standard, couldn’t remember half of it.

Oh, I know that I said I wouldn't comment, but here I am...

Pure Arts students can still benefit from being able to extrapolate their electricity usage and estimate what their annual electric bill will be. They can be helped to understand that someone saying their sister's boyfriend's hairdresser had covid doesn't mean that there is a new wave. They need to be able to work out if its better to buy a kilo of potatoes at £1 or 350g at 75p.

What I meant to say perhaps was that my daughter in law reads philosophy in the original Ancient Greek texts as opposed to translations….
Maybe not over breakfast!