Compulsory Maths till you’re 18.

A change to the baccalaureate system requires a complete overhaul not just one idea about maths.

You just wonder what business it is of governments to set curriculums, unless you happen to live in a communist country or a right wing dictatorship. They should concentrate on sorting out all the health problems and financial problems first.

ronib from her degree, I presume that your DIL’s subject is languages.
Which other subjects does she teach?

There are plenty of school activity that need changing, in my book maths is not one of them beyond basic numeracy and everyday mortgages and borrowing knowledge.

I failed maths twice never took it again and can’t say it’s ever held me back I can do normal maths as fast and faster than most youngsters today but I couldn’t get on with algebra I can still remember all my tables
The government needs to work out a lot more than poking their nose into school curriculums

I'm not commenting on this as there are too many aspects I don't know about.

But can we remember that maths isn't the same as mental arithmetic, and that a calculator generally doesn't help you with maths?

Agree volver.
I would support the idea of maths as part of a bacalauréat system. This system could also extend vocational offers post 16, which does need to happen.
I am not suggesting fast, wholesale change, but I don't think the idea of a baccalauréat should be dismissed. There has long been a debate about A level narrowing choices too much.

FannyCornforth

ronib from her degree, I presume that your DIL’s subject is languages.
Which other subjects does she teach?

At the moment my daughter in law teaches philosophy and ethics although her first love is classics. She can read Ancient Greek in the original!

volver

I'm not commenting on this as there are too many aspects I don't know about.

But can we remember that maths isn't the same as mental arithmetic, and that a calculator generally doesn't help you with maths?

I think it's a problem that so many people equate maths with arithmetic ... and maybe why maths does need to be part of the curriculum until school leaving age. At least make sure everybody knows what the word "average" means, when they read about it in a newspaper article.

At the moment my daughter in law teaches philosophy and ethics although her first love is classics. She can read Ancient Greek in the original!

Is there any other form of Ancient Greek?

MawtheMerrier

^At the moment my daughter in law teaches philosophy and ethics although her first love is classics. She can read Ancient Greek in the original!^

Is there any other form of Ancient Greek?

As opposed to modern Greek?!!

ronib

MawtheMerrier

At the moment my daughter in law teaches philosophy and ethics although her first love is classics. She can read Ancient Greek in the original!

Is there any other form of Ancient Greek?

As opposed to modern Greek?!!

Modern Greek isn't Ancient Greek.

I was never much good at Maths but found, when doing the OU Science Foundation Course that applying Maths to the subject, rather than it being theoretical, made it easier to understand.

Where this can be done with Science, Geography etc, it could be included in the curriculum. It's much more difficult to find a relevant way of doing it for pure Arts students.

What I meant to say perhaps was that my daughter in law reads philosophy in the original Ancient Greek texts as opposed to translations….
Maybe not over breakfast!

Oh, I know that I said I wouldn't comment, but here I am...

Pure Arts students can still benefit from being able to extrapolate their electricity usage and estimate what their annual electric bill will be. They can be helped to understand that someone saying their sister's boyfriend's hairdresser had covid doesn't mean that there is a new wave. They need to be able to work out if its better to buy a kilo of potatoes at £1 or 350g at 75p.

I had to teach maths to young sec school students for a few weeks because no one else there could ( the maths teacher left) . In a way it was quite good because I told them I wasn’t too good at it and was only filling in and we would help each other. Worked a dream, they were very motivated . Sometimes in teaching it is good if you are only a couple of lessons ahead, you know what their difficulties are likely to be! Mind you, I certainly wouldn’t have put my hand up for VCE, A level standard, couldn’t remember half of it.

I think basic literacy and numeracy should be taught to all. Appropriate provision should be made for pupils struggling with either.

I’m so glad I’m not an old cynic. I might have thought this was a distraction tactic by the government.

This political interference in the curriculum by non-professionals has already given us the Gove-led curriculum that is proving so troublesome. If teachers were saying this would be a good thing and initiating this, it would be different. But these out-of-touch privately-educated politicians, who have no idea of what teaching is about in practice on the ground, need to stop their pronouncements and let the profession get on with its job.

There is already a massive shortage of maths teachers. Has RS a plan to solve this? Has he any idea where the majority of pupils stand on this? Does he not think that some pupils will be put off FE is they are forced to do more maths? Has he indeed thought about this at all, or consulted with the profession?

I think the nature of the maths taught is important. For some students pure maths is appropriate, but for the vast majority there needs to be practical arithmetic that will prove useful in their future lives and hopefully they will have had this teaching pre-GCSE.

One of my DDs simply could not do maths as dictated by the curriculum. She failed to pass GCSE 3 times - she got a D each time, so this meant that she was not wholly ignorant on the subject, but failed to achieve the desired C. When she was at 6th form, she was forced to continue to try and achieve this, and it was the bane of her life. In the end I spoke to the teacher and said: "Look, she is a D as far as maths is concerned. We have 3 results as evidence of this. She accepts that this is her level. What are we trying to achieve here?" She was allowed to drop maths.

She was offered an unconditional place at a Russell Group university and achieved an MA. She now runs a highly successful business with her OH.

nanna8

You just wonder what business it is of governments to set curriculums, unless you happen to live in a communist country or a right wing dictatorship. They should concentrate on sorting out all the health problems and financial problems first.

Indeed it is not their business. Just like school governors, their role is to set the strategic direction of education in terms of how it is funded and organised.

Ridiculous idea and quite frankly, just a distraction from more pressing problems which the government would rather ignore!

I suppose it’s what you mean by maths. The sort of maths my GS is doing would be required for a range of professional careers, but not equate to the numerical skills you would need to get a qualification in the building, electrical or plumbing trades - and you can’t get a “ticket” without those qualifications. If he’s talking about numerical skills for vocational qualifications, so that all pupils leaving school are numerate, I’m all for it. Not sure how the eighteen would work though. I was hopeless at maths when I was at school and so was my son. He found his maths mojo when he was in his twenties and I never found mine at all!

FannyCornforth

Or perhaps we could bring back National Service; but instead of it being in the military, it would be NHS based

Great idea Fanny! 👏🏻👏🏻

Blossoming

I think basic literacy and numeracy should be taught to all. Appropriate provision should be made for pupils struggling with either.

In primary school, huge efforts are made to do exactly that. We have had training in using strategies to address dyslexia and dyscalculia. Strategies which
address the needs of pupils with either but are useful for all pupils.
I’d love to know what GNs class as basic maths and basic literacy.
Would we have total agreement or would each Gransnetter have their own views about what constitutes basic?

I actually think it’s terrible to make non-academic pupils stay on at school until they’re 18,far better they are released to go to a technical college and learn a skill…. my son was not at all academic, he found a job at 16 and I took him out of school he has been with the same firm now for 20 years and is an excellent bricklayer earning excellent money..(The school had threatened me with court but I explain to them that he was not at all academic and probably was not even taking any notice in class and this was a far better option for him, it wasn’t as though he was laying in bed all day at home he actually had a job and I never heard any more about it )