Compulsory Maths till you’re 18.

It seems clear to me that if 16 to 18 year olds are going to be learning maths then they will have to be taught at whatever level they have reached. They will also need to be well taught. The whole point of having specialist teachers in secondary schools is to provide good teaching from those who really know, at a higher level. So, if we have a shortage of maths teachers now, doesn’t sound like sensible planning to me.

A ridiculous proposition! Those students who find maths easy will probably study it at age 18 anyway! What happens to those who find maths difficult. Why has he homed in on maths ! I left school very early , always struggled with maths but have always had sufficient mathematical knowledge to cope with everyday situations.
Surely Mr Sunak has more important issues to deal with - the NHS for one!!

how many of us have to use all the maths we were taught?

Well, me...😂😂

volver

^As Volver says what are calculators to help us with the maths that we need for daily living?^

Calculators generally don't help you with maths. Unless maybe you've got an HP programmable one. (Do they still make those?)

They're great at arithmetic though.

Maths is not about knowing how to do the sums. It's about knowing what sums to do, and why.

Come on Volver I used maths as a general term, how many of us have to use all the maths we were taught? Yes, arithmetic is mostly what we use or"sums", and yes a calculator helps.
Though my GS could have done with a bit of knowledge of Archimedes's principle the other day when he nearly flooded the bathroom.

So what do GNs think basic maths should include?
At the moment, basic maths seems to mean that people value/recommend different aspects, or even that a calculator is all you need, which wouldn’t help anyone planning a maths curriculum that everyone would be happy with.

As Volver says what are calculators to help us with the maths that we need for daily living?

Calculators generally don't help you with maths. Unless maybe you've got an HP programmable one. (Do they still make those?)

They're great at arithmetic though.

Maths is not about knowing how to do the sums. It's about knowing what sums to do, and why.

growstuff

MayBee70

I suppose it makes more sense than Boris Johnson’s idea that everyone should learn Latin…( does Sunak realise that some people leave school at 16?)

They don't - not in England, anyway. They might leave school, but they have to stay in education of some sort until 18.

Crikey. I’m so out of touch about this! We’re apprenticeships etc provided for young people then?

Marilla

I so agree with FannyCornforth.

So do I, if you can't do maths at the level they seem to want at 16 what will two more wasted years at school do?
I worked in a special school with 11 /12-year-old children. I was really an Infant teacher and the head wanted me to teach them to read. After using every method I knew and every trick in the book about two got a bit better. Sometimes we have to accept we are not and never going to be the brain of Britain.
As Volver says what are calculators to help us with the maths that we need for daily living?
It's time we accept that all jobs do not need a degree and some of us are far more practically minded than others. Sometimes we find it easier to learn something when we can see the reason for doing so. Vocational skills. Who's ever met a joiner who can't use a tape measure but most haven't got A level maths?
I cried buckets over Calculus at 16 and I have never needed it since.

There is another thread asking how we keep our brains active.

During lockdown, Miss Marydoll kept us on our toes with a daily Maffs Puzzle and it was very enjoyable although some pupils were very naughty (you know who you are).

Mr Sunak thinks that all Gransnetters should have a daily maths test to keep our brains active - we just need a teecher - any volunteers?

🙂

growstuff

*perhaps he is trying to distract us??*

Nooooooooooooo! As if ...

Think you have definitely hit it on the head . All smoke and mirrors

I so agree with FannyCornforth.

I am in despair of this latest thinking from the PM.
What is the extended curriculum to contain.?
Which mathematical skills are considered necessary to be compulsory?
Basic arithmetic skills are needed more than “Mathematics”.
My grandson has dyscalculia and it would be to the point of cruelty to make him continue with Maths.

FannyCornforth

I would have simply refused to do it.
I refused to do PE in the last year of school, so I do have form!

I have dyscalculia.
It took all my of efforts (and that if my parents and my wonderful maths teacher, who also privately tutored me) to scrape a C in my second attempt.

I was academically bright in other areas, so it probably would have caused huge problems for my HE and FE.

I wonder how maths teachers feel about having a class full of reluctant, stroppy (and, as would have been in my case - totally incapable) 17 and 18 year old students?

The whole thing is a ridiculous nightmare.
It’s a good job that it won’t actually happen! 😃

I'm with you on this Fanny, I would have been behind the bike shed with the smokers[I don.t smoke] but have gone to hide and for the company. My Dyslexia affects my maths ability after a certain level.
It's bad enough some poor teachers have to fight with 16-year-olds to do maths. Does this mean everyone will have to stay at school until they are 18? Imagine the chaos and what other subjects would be found for them.
I refused with a group of friends to do P.E. in the 6th form after we were herded in front of a teacher's car to do a cross-country run that we had been cutting a corner off and getting a lift with a van driver.
A farmer's daughter said it was illegal for farmers to do it with cows so we all just sat down in the road. I have form for being stroppy too. Doubt if anybody would have guessed .

Greyduster

I suppose it’s what you mean by maths. The sort of maths my GS is doing would be required for a range of professional careers, but not equate to the numerical skills you would need to get a qualification in the building, electrical or plumbing trades - and you can’t get a “ticket” without those qualifications. If he’s talking about numerical skills for vocational qualifications, so that all pupils leaving school are numerate, I’m all for it. Not sure how the eighteen would work though. I was hopeless at maths when I was at school and so was my son. He found his maths mojo when he was in his twenties and I never found mine at all!

I'm 78, was done with school at 16 and married soon. Maths is far easier to me than grammar, spelling, writing - I have quite minimum competence in all. I'm never going further in school. I'm content having numerical skills necessary for all sort of daily life and easy business bookkeeping.

I agree If he’s talking about numerical skills for vocational qualifications, so that all pupils leaving school are numerate, I’m all for it.

biglouis that’s awful. But your last sentence made me laugh.
Let x equal ... Sod that for a game of soldiers

Maths is a sore subject with me.

I was academically bright in a number of subjects and average in some others. Maths was one of my "average" ones. Although I was never in the bottom set I often got picked on by the maths teacher, Mr Jones. He made me doubt my own abilities.

One day he caught me in the stock room and put his hand on my breast, saying your a big girl. I knocked it away saying "You shouldnt have done that. If you ever pick on me in lessons again Im going to tell on you!"

I dont believe he ever spoke to me again directly, much less picked on me. I dropped maths the following year to do commercial subjects. It was allowed because they included bookkeeping. That was far more useful to me in running a business than algebra and theorems (which I never got the hang of).

Let x equal ... Sod that for a game of soldiers!

I agree no need to worry about French if you are never going to go there - but the people I meet who are worried are already here 🇫🇷. 😂
Just out of interest has anybody read the link to the actual maths curriculum that I posted?

ronib

What I meant to say perhaps was that my daughter in law reads philosophy in the original Ancient Greek texts as opposed to translations….
Maybe not over breakfast!

Ah, something quite different.
Good for her.

The man is totally disconnected from the real world. There is a shortage of teachers. There are so many problems that schools are trying to deal with.

A wider and deeper maths curriculum would no doubt be a good thing but how?

Totally potty government run by a totally potty leader.

I think the teaching would need to be very targeted and deal with the needs of particular children. At a basic level it would be possible to make it fun (but I doubt that's what Rishi has in mind). A friend taught maths to a group of teenage boys (absconders, problem children) by letting them play darts. The boys could all calculate doubles and trebles and do subtraction in their heads when they played, but sit them down with a paper and they protested they couldn't do it.

growstuff

Casting my mind back to General Studies, I remember studying a lot of graphs and charts. IMO understanding and interpreting them is a very useful skill for anybody who wants to understand anything of the world.

I agree with this growstuff

If the maths element from 16-18 is not an A level type syllabus it could be extremely helpful in every day life. It needn’t be algebra and matrices etc.

Calculating interest on credit cards, loans etc. working out dimensions when ordering turf for lawns, concrete for patios, paint and wallpaper for decorating.

It’s surprising how many people come into our trade counter with little knowledge of ordering the correct volume of building/decorating products. It may even stop young folks getting into trouble with loans if they realised how much more they will be paying back.

It does seem that it's difficult to teach maths well. Improved greatly since our generation were at school but even so more work on the best methods to improve learning and retention in maths seems called for.

RS is thinking of skills for the workforce, which is better than not thinking at all. And yes, education/training is compulsory until 18. Nothing in the statement implies the endless retaking of GCSE maths or everyone doing A level maths. Don't lets throw the baby out with the bathwater.

How to budget and handle personal finances is important.
Most of us learnt that after we left school but it could be useful.

Most supermarkets have a price per unit on the labels so learning, for example, how to work out whether items are cheaper bought as an offer or not is probably not necessary.

Casting my mind back to General Studies, I remember studying a lot of graphs and charts. IMO understanding and interpreting them is a very useful skill for anybody who wants to understand anything of the world.