Some sensible maths ideas from Labour

eazybee

The reason so many parents do not understand fronted adverbials is because they, and some teachers, were not taught grammar while at school. It was the 'all about communication; grammar doesn't matter' period, and I sincerely hope Labour is not returning to their levelling down period.

Well, I was taught grammar (1950s and 50s) and I’d still never heard of fronted adverbials. We used to have to parse sentences, too. IMO it was in the 70s that grammar started to be a ‘dirty word’, something that didn’t matter any more. Ditto spelling of course.

I taught EFL abroad in the 80s, to adults, and it was still something of a dirty word then - the poor things were supposed to absorb rules by some sort of linguistic osmosis.

I still remember some poor chap from an elementary class saying, ‘Teacher, when I say ‘was’ and when I say ‘were’?

Nowhere in their textbook was it printed in black and white for them -
I was, you were, he/she/it was, etc.

From then on I started making and dishing out various sheets for them to refer to/learn, and sod the trendy methods.

I used to think that maybe knowing all these grammatical terms would help with learning a foreign language. That's until I realised that English, French, German, Italian all have rules of their own, and half of them contradict each other's usage anyway!

Not sure how they got away with that Calistemon2.
Information
The multiplication tables check (MTC) is statutory for all year 4 pupils registered at state-funded maintained schools, special schools or academies (including free schools) in England.

The purpose of the MTC is to determine whether pupils can recall their times tables fluently, which is essential for future success in mathematics. It will help schools to identify pupils who have not yet mastered their times tables, so that additional support can be provided.

Schools must administer the MTC to all eligible year 4 pupils between Monday 5 June and Friday 16 June 2023.

Schools can use the following week, Monday 19 June to Friday 23 June, to administer the check to any pupils who were absent during the first 2 weeks or in case of any delays to the administration of the check due to technical difficulties.

Schools must provide a reason for any pupils who are not able to participate in the check within the MTC service.

Luckygirl3

Callistemon21

Suddenly, SueDonim remembered where she had left her glasses!

By Jove, I think I've got it 😃

Some primary schools teach times tables, some do not think they are necessary.
I think they are useful.

I think all primary schools do tables - it is part of the curriculum.

Certainly, several years ago, DD's primary school decided they weren't necessary and stopped teaching them. We used to try to recite them at home and on a car journey. Recently, we realised that the DGC's primary school had not bothered with times tables yet other local primary schools do.
Perhaps it's part of the curriculum in England.

Since decimalisation learning how to add up amounts of money is far easier than adding or subtracting £sd.

Callistemon21

Suddenly, SueDonim remembered where she had left her glasses!

By Jove, I think I've got it 😃

Some primary schools teach times tables, some do not think they are necessary.
I think they are useful.

I think all primary schools do tables - it is part of the curriculum.

Fronted adverbials are words or phrases placed at the beginning of a sentence which are used to describe the action that follows. - so there you have it!
I am not entirely sure why children need to have this label for it. I am not saying do not learn about grammar, as it is a useful tool for learning other languages, but it needs to be relevant to life.

We must be mindful that children can become demotivated by learning if it becomes too divorced from life - time enough for more abstract concepts in secondary school.

I am still very quick at times tables learned in the 1950s by rote and used to amaze my GC with my speedy and correct answers .
However I had never heard of
Fronted adverbials and at the age of 5 they were able to amaze me. Not sure if the point of it all.
Nowhere near as useful as times tables ,

I think the teaching of basic arithmetic has been abysmal for years, my perception there is little consolidation of the different basic building blocks in junior school. A few days on long division for example and then on to say fractions so by the time they return to one or the other, the principles have been forgotten. I seem to remember spending what seemed like an eternity on one such facet.

Recently when we were in a pub and we ordered two drinks, can't remember the exact amounts but it was a simple in your head job, say 4.50 and 6.25 for arguments sake, the girl aged 18 or so, for some reason had to get her phone to add them up. Similarly, whilst talking to a woman in a picture framing shop, she was recounted how when problems with the till arose when a customer wanted 5 picture hooks, 17 year old Saturday girl turned to her with "I don't know how to work that out" no idea how to apply multiplication, clearly something is wrong. We appear to have gone up the world reading tables going back to basic phonics I presume. I don't particularly agree with Rishi Sunak's studying maths until 18, but our young people clearly need some basic numeracy skills.

I remember a distraught mother posting on MN "help I've got two degrees but don't understand my 9 year old's maths homework "

Callistemon I too think that multiplication tables (we did twelve times until decimalisation and metrication) ..are the most useful and practical thing for everyone.
That and learning to read early as possible are life savers even🤗

It’s sometimes the terminology that’s the problem.
We can probably all see a difference between
Quietly, he opened the door and slid into the room
and
He opened the door and slid into the room quietly.
Or even
He open ended the door and slid quietly into the room.
It’s trying to teach children those constructions to add depth to their writing without having a hook to hang them on.
That being said, I had to learn to do that without knowing the name of the hook. .

Suddenly, SueDonim remembered where she had left her glasses!

By Jove, I think I've got it 😃

Some primary schools teach times tables, some do not think they are necessary.
I think they are useful.

M0nica

I think all these life skills subjects taught in schools, should be gathered together into one subject area called 'Life Skills'.

It can incorporate human biology sex education, which link in with good nutrition and cooking,which link in with budgeting and finance, which link in with saving short term and long, such as saving for a pension, which links in with how banks and mortgages work, which links in with housing options, which links with running a house and having children and basic child care/psychology, which links in with human biology and sex education.

That’s a huge amount of matter for a teacher to impart, alongside the traditional subjects. We ask so much of teachers nowadays, they’d surely deserve much more pay if they were to take on this as well.

As for fronted adverbials, I’ve managed to get this far in life without knowing what they are so I’ve decided my brain doesn’t need this information. Remembering where I’ve put my glasses is likely to be of more use to me!

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202310/medium-651558-s-l1600.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202310/medium-392025-image.png

Boringly, here are some examples of fronted adverbials.

Very happy to go with Doodledog's explanation. What is often missing is the 'why'? Equipping students with knowledge of parts of speech is fairly vital (in my view) if you are going to teach how to use different parts of speech to begin sentences. For a significant number of students writing is just an onerous version of talk, using personal and impersonal pronouns to begin each and every sentence. Unavoidably, this produces boring writing. Just a few thoughts as a retired English teacher.

I think primary school pupils need to have a good understanding of arithmetic, weights, measures, area, money, some geometry and perhaps graphs; a sound base they can build on in the future.

fabout??

Another new word

GrannyGravy13

The dreaded fronted adverb was homework for our GC last week (yr 4) it had some of the children in tears (and some of the mums reaching for the wine long before wine o’clock)

😂😂😂

However did I manage to get to about 75 (and with A level English) without hearing the words fronted adverbial?
First heard fabout from a panicked DGC!
🍷

Did I really need to learn algebraic equations that spread over pages for 'O' level?

Elegran

That was for Eazybee, not for you, DD.

No, I'm all ears! I'm by no means convinced that my interpretation is the right one.

That was for Eazybee, not for you, DD.

So could you please tell us all what a fronted adverbial IS, and what we would have called it sixty years ago (when it had been used for decades already under another name) ? I was rtaught grammar many years ago, I understand how a sentence is constructed and how each part of it interacts with the rest, but I would not have used the term "fronted adverbial".

If it is fronted, what fronts it? If it is adverbial, then "adverbial" is an adjective, so it is an adverbial what? An adverbial clause? If so, what was wrong with just calling it that? Have clauses been discontinued?

I was taught grammar at school - we parsed sentences and knew all the terms for parts of speech and how to use them, but I am unsure what a fronted adverbial is. I know what an adverb is, and I know what the front of a sentence is (I assume it means the beginning?) so logic suggests that a FA would be something like 'Quickly pulling on his socks he tripped over the dog on his way to answer the door'. Is that right? If so, it's a bit clumsy, but I'm sure there are more useful examples than that one .

Why do children need to be taught that particular construction? There must be others that would help with writing at that age.

Anyway - I agree about 'life skills' being a better way to teach, but I guess the reason it is not adopted will be that it would be difficult to test, and these days it's all about the testing.

The reason so many parents do not understand fronted adverbials is because they, and some teachers, were not taught grammar while at school. It was the 'all about communication; grammar doesn't matter' period, and I sincerely hope Labour is not returning to their levelling down period.

We learnt the difference between the main clause of a sentence and the dependent clauses to that main clause, and as well as adjectives and adverbs we had adjectival clauses and adverbial clauses.

I do so agree on ‘fronted adverbials’ and the like.

I was lucky enough to be given very good English language teaching at the primary stage, but labels were limited to noun, verb, adjective, adverb, preposition, pronoun. And anything else I’ve forgotten!

I think all these life skills subjects taught in schools, should be gathered together into one subject area called 'Life Skills'.

It can incorporate human biology sex education, which link in with good nutrition and cooking,which link in with budgeting and finance, which link in with saving short term and long, such as saving for a pension, which links in with how banks and mortgages work, which links in with housing options, which links with running a house and having children and basic child care/psychology, which links in with human biology and sex education.