School trips have changed since my day…..

One of her uncles is gay, maddyone, so she knows how ordinary gay people are. I don’t think anyone is presenting them as freaks.

I was educated in Scotland and never went on a school trip throughout my education.

There’s nothing wrong with learning about gay people, in a respectful way, at school. In fact it should be taught. The likelihood of children of this age knowing about families or couples who are gay is strong. The point is that a bookshop dedicated entirely to gay people is not age appropriate. Have the staff veted every book on the shelves for suitability? What exactly is the point of going to a bookshop dedicated entirely to books about or for gay people anyway? What are the children supposed to learn from such a shop? And what are they going to learn at the museum? The link shows mainly pictures of people who are supposedly gay. What are the learning objectives for such a trip? I should have thought that learning to respect everyone, whatever their sexuality or other difference is what is important here.

In addition, what of the millions of gay people who don’t want to be pictured in a museum like some sort of freak show. My son and his partner live very ordinary lives, wear very ordinary clothing, do not take part in any ‘gay’ events, and try to bring up their child in a very ordinary way. They couldn’t be more ordinary if they tried. They are part of our loving family. I don’t think they would want to be pictured in a museum as if they are freaks. They are not.

From what I know of my granddaughter, she will sail through this experience and be no more adversely affected by it than she is by knowing where babies come from. She is still a child, but an educated one.

Norah

I admit to being quite surprised, too.

Our GC went on ski trips and Disney trips - I'm pleased.

I’d be much more worried about Disney trips. I loathe Disney!

That’s okay Lathyrus3 it’s good to have my opinions challenged occasionally. Especially in a gracious way, such as you expressed. Thank you.

Yes the old ‘birds and the bees’ educations. The raging hormones. Too much growth spurts and energy. We all went through it. And truly, I’m no prude nor ‘pearl clutcher’.

I just think we bombarb youngish children nowadays with alternative viewpoints, diversity opinions etc. Sure they’ll get to know this soon enough but it’s almost as though education is proffering this and putting ideas into young heads too soon. Ooh have YOU thought you might like to explore this/feel this way/think about THIS?

I’m not entirely sure some of this is not promotion rather than just education and I truly believe Stonewall have a lot to answer for here.

Rainbow lanyards, gender identity books (in the library aimed at six year olds for goodness sake I noticed on Saturday went out with our 8 year old granddaughter).

Sorry, for me - its too much and yes, too soon. Let them be kids a little while longer. Some organisation is pushing this agenda and I’m not sure why. We all managed without it as part of our ‘sex education’. I’m sure today’s children could wait a little longer than this, without detriment psychologically.

I remember one of my grandsons going to a River Thames museum, somewhere round Henley I think. Apparently it was really interesting, with lots of archaeology. Of course Covid put a stop to trips for a lot of his time at secondary school but he did get a trip to Auschwitz and a week skiing in Italy.

I admit to being quite surprised, too.

Our GC went on ski trips and Disney trips - I'm pleased.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

I’m not against this day trip per se but I’m with escaped here.
Too much, too soon. Seems we push these things on kids nowadays. Can’t childhood, a game of football or netball just be enough for a little while longer? Why this rush into learning about alternative types of sexual behaviours all of a sudden?
12 years old?
Must be me that’s out of step.

Can I respectfully say that I think you are.

As I said, most are going through puberty at this age and along with that come feelings and questions about sexuality. Along with some (mostly self) exploration.

It’s not new. I can remember some of the conversations at Secondary school when I was 11. We might like to still think of them as children, but nature thinks otherwise.

I agree too much too soon.

Maybe we try just a bit too hard in this country. Not just about this topic, but others such as mental health and climate change. It's good to inform but I question if we're going about it the right way. My grandsons are at a school where over half the children have been diagnosed with a mental health issue.

Our children are the least happy in Europe. Languishing at the bottom.

I'd like to know why.

ixion

Lathyrus3

keepingquiet

Maybe if it also included some balance in some way, rather than being a totally 'gay' day.

There are so many other things to see with gay content, rather than being exclusive, and seeing gay as 'other?'

Yes I’d agree with that. The museum of Medcine maybe. The Garden museum had a good exhibition of women gardeners - though maybe not for most 12 year olds😬 Pity Ballet Shoes has finished at The National. Lots of schools at the matinee performance. The Fondlng museum wouldn’t do them any harm

Rehabs they can’t go far from KingsCross

The Fondlng museum wouldn’t do them any harm.

Neither would the Foundling Museum, Lathyrus3 😉

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Oh dear………

I’m not against this day trip per se but I’m with escaped here.
Too much, too soon. Seems we push these things on kids nowadays. Can’t childhood, a game of football or netball just be enough for a little while longer? Why this rush into learning about alternative types of sexual behaviours all of a sudden?
12 years old?
Must be me that’s out of step.

Grandma70s

maddyone, those venues aren’t necessarily for adults. I think adolescents are allowed in, too.

To be fair, the bookshop does have a selection of children's books relating to the subject.
That's also why I asked about the musical "Everyone's talking about Jamie" because it is rated 13 years.
I wouldn't choose to take a group of Year 7s to these venues, I think it should be left to parents, but obviously some schools do see fit.

Lathyrus3

keepingquiet

Maybe if it also included some balance in some way, rather than being a totally 'gay' day.

There are so many other things to see with gay content, rather than being exclusive, and seeing gay as 'other?'

Yes I’d agree with that. The museum of Medcine maybe. The Garden museum had a good exhibition of women gardeners - though maybe not for most 12 year olds😬 Pity Ballet Shoes has finished at The National. Lots of schools at the matinee performance. The Fondlng museum wouldn’t do them any harm

Rehabs they can’t go far from KingsCross

The Fondlng museum wouldn’t do them any harm.

Neither would the Foundling Museum, Lathyrus3 😉

maddyone, those venues aren’t necessarily for adults. I think adolescents are allowed in, too.

The links don’t look unsafe or sexually explicit?

Well said maddyone. Age-appropriate this outing isn’t, imho.

I went on a school trip to a Hare Krishna temple - which was pretty "out there" in 1973.

Cossy

www.gaystheword.co.uk/

www.kingscross.co.uk/queer-britain

Maybe here are the two visits?? They are not sex shops

Yes, those are the two visits.

I’m the parent of a gay son. I made clear in my post that children of twelve, and before twelve actually, should learn about gay people and different types of families. Of course they should because that is part of life today. For goodness sake, my grandson is being raised by two dads, and very well raised I may add. But that doesn’t make me think that a gay bookshop and a gay museum is a suitable educational outing for twelve year olds. These venues are for adults, not for children. It has nothing to do with Section 28, that’s gone and it’s not going to return because children haven’t visited adult venues such as a gay bookshop or a gay museum. We just need to understand that children do not need to experience such venues to know about gay people and families that are different.

keepingquiet

Maybe if it also included some balance in some way, rather than being a totally 'gay' day.

There are so many other things to see with gay content, rather than being exclusive, and seeing gay as 'other?'

I think it’s not about “gay” content, rather than outlining the problems and issues historically and celebrating and accepting “differences”

keepingquiet

Maybe if it also included some balance in some way, rather than being a totally 'gay' day.

There are so many other things to see with gay content, rather than being exclusive, and seeing gay as 'other?'

Yes I’d agree with that. The museum of Medcine maybe. The Garden museum had a good exhibition of women gardeners - though maybe not for most 12 year olds😬 Pity Ballet Shoes has finished at The National. Lots of schools at the matinee performance. The Fondlng museum wouldn’t do them any harm

Rehabs they can’t go far from KingsCross

Just shows how out of touch I am with children's education these days escaped.

Maybe if it also included some balance in some way, rather than being a totally 'gay' day.

There are so many other things to see with gay content, rather than being exclusive, and seeing gay as 'other?'

Agree with Lathyrus3, this is a good idea, encourages children of this age group to be broad minded and tolerant as they enter puberty and their own sexuality becomes an important issue.
The lesson 'live and let live' is always worth repeating.