Grammar schools - 1960s/1970s

Sounds like a subject for enquiry to me that so many places had separated grammar schools. I just took it for granted that throughout my schooling there was no segregation of sexes and it carried on that way when I moved onto grammar school.

What were the excuses/reasons given for having girls grammar schools on the one hand and boys grammar schools on the other hand? Did they basically teach the same subjects in the same way and have the same expectations for both sexes?

Yep - after the school went comprehensive = there were boys in my cookery class as well and I was the only girl in the woodwork class and could have done car mechanics if I wanted to. Cue for "general" stuff and they decided to show us all a real life video of women giving birth one day - and it was duly shown to both sexes at once and I took that for granted - whilst the teachers counted out 7 pupils that reacted strongly (eg fainting) to it - 6 boys and 1 girl (no guesses for who the girl was LOL.......). I guess it was part of hammering it home to us that we were NOT "girls" - we were "people....sex irrelevant" and they found their ways to make the downsides of living a "female" lifestyle very clear to us. Hence I've been gobsmacked and angry ever since in every context if I got treated as a "woman" instead of as a "person" and hadnt realised my society was still like that and there have been "words" sometimes with offenders....

Basically - I guess I was lucky that my secondary schooling - at both points (grammar and then comprehensive) treated boys and girls absolutely equally at all points and I saw no sign of them even trying to be discriminatory. So I came out into the workforce without a thought in mind that anyone ever would try and treat me differently for being a woman - so confidently went for whatever I'd decided to go for (sex irrelevant). So the only sex discrimination I ever got anywhere was from my mother - but not from my father (who never forgot he hadnt been allowed to take up a scholarship he'd won and continue his education after 14 - because he came from a large poor family).

I was always suspicious as 5 of us passed our 11+. The 3 boys went to the grammar school. We 2 girls went to a “technical / A stream” at a secondary modern where there was 6th form and A level provision. Surely coincidence…?
As an aside, has anyone else seen the book of 11+ papers that you can buy? . Cant remember what its called tbh but its fascinating what I must have known to actually pass in the first place. Pretty sure I wouldnt now. Still OK with English questions, still struggle with maths !

There was.only a mixed grammar school in our town, and that's where I went in 1956.
It wasn't automatic entry though, as once you'd passed the 11+, there was an interview round which was quite daunting - an interview first with the senior master and mistress, followed by an interview with the headmaster.

Had no idea if there was any boy/girl bias.

I must have somehow impressed them, and spent the next 7 years there. Loved it, as I loved learning. And it was an escape from a very strict mother... but that's another story.

Calendargirl

When my daughter ‘failed’ her 11+, this was in the mid 80’s though, I was disappointed because certain boys in her year ‘passed’, and I knew she did better than them in the routine school work, weekly tests and suchlike.

However, her very wise headmaster told me that although she worked hard, was a diligent pupil, no trouble to teach, boys developed later than girls, and by the time they were in their early teens, these same boys would have matured educationally, and be much brighter, if that makes sense, than my hard working girl.

And this proved to be the case. These same boys who I had written off achieved much as they grew older.

I won a Dux medal (Scottish top of school), numbers 2 +3 were also girls, so got no prize. when no 2 was a boy, he got a runner up prize.
I won a scholarship to a convent school, but my parents decided to move, so lost out, but instead of negotiating transfer, they sent me to an experimental comp. instead of the grammar. Often you found that it was not necessarily the school, but parents who decided that the cost of uniform and extra-curricular needed for many grammars, would be better spent on brothers and girls needed cookery and needlework

A really great culture where you could be in top class for English and remedial for maths, and continuous assessment meant that late bloomers could move up. (A classmate 11+ failure went to Uni with 4 As, 2 at A* after getting help with his reading). Modern comps do not seem to run this way.

The raw score was standardized and those with May, June, July and August birthdays often benefited from a significant amount of marks given to their score. Sometimes you may have had a higher raw score if you were a September or October birthday but scored less after standardisation.

Failed 11+ and off to secondary modern school.

The grammar schools were mixed.

Girls didn’t really have a future. It was either secretarial course of factory. I took secretarial.

This thread has started a discussion in my house. My SiL came to lunch today. She went to an Edinburgh girls' feepaying school in the days when they were still affordable. They received a Government subsidy so were Direct Grant schools. There was an entrance test and she says she passed the 11+. We both wondered if there is any record kept of anyone actually passing or failing?

I don't remember seeing any such thing. Was there? Did the primary schools keep a list? I'd like to know.

I too went to a girls only grammar school. There was one for girls only, one for boys only and one mixed in the city. There were also scholarship places available in a boy’s’ private school. My school is now a mixed comprehensive school.

Defo I can see I was at least lucky there were only the two schools - one grammar/one secondary.

They must both have been rather big - as, when they amalgamated, the combined comprehensive was HUGE (about 2,000 pupils).

Also very lucky that the two schools were basically opposite sides of the road to each other - so it wasn't hard to combine the two physically. We just got used to walking to and fro between the two adjacent sites.

DS54

My area had single sex grammar schools, mine the girls’ had 3 forms of entry 96 places per year, my husband’s had 4 forms 128 places each year.

Crikey! One heck of a lot of discrimination would have gone on there then - courtesy of those single sex schools.

If my maths is correct = they should have changed one of the boys ones to a girls one and then it would have been equal number of places for both sexes (assuming the schools were near each other that is....).

I passed the 11+ but my parents wouldnt let me go to the girls' grammar. They wanted me to go to the church school where entrance was on interview only.
I suppose it was mixed ability although we didn't know that at the time. I left, went to university and got a masters degree. Can't have been that bad. I've since taught in some excellent comprehensive schools which were far superior academically than the grammar school my step daughter attended.

In the 1970s A level results were smoothed to ensure that the same proportion of each grade was given to both sexes. The girls, of course, did better in absolute terms.

Pigeon Holed at that time of life!

Mirren

Probably explains an injustice that's made me cross all my life ... Which involved my Mum , not me .
Born in 1933 she was a bright child who passed the 11 plus easily and should have gone to the Grammar school like her big boy.
Unfortunately she was told there " wasn't a place" for her and she went to the local secondary modern.
A year later a place miraculously came available for her at the Grammar school. My Mum was always feisty and had settled so refused to go , on principle.
My grandparents obviously didn't have any high expectations of girls because they didn't encourage her to move.
She left school at 14 , becoming a window dresser and then learning typing and became a typist.
She was always highly intelligent.
The year I went to uni she was also accepted into Durham University to study to be a priest.
She was one of the first women ordained into the priest hood at, Durham Cathedral in about 1993 and worked as a priest until her retirement.
After retirement, with the support of my Dad , she followed an Open University course and managed to finish this after Dad died .
I had the great privilege of walking my Mum , in her cap and gown, across the stage at the Sage in Gateshead on the day she graduated and earned her degree.
She was 82, the oldest graduate they'd had and she was a bit wobbly on her pins.
Sadly,she died in 2018, still holding on to her dreams of completing her Masters.
How I miss my wonderful Mum .

Grammar schools had to be paid for before 1944, maybe her parents just told her that because they couldn't afford the fees?

Anyone attend a grammar school in Trafford ?
We remained there purely so that the lads could attend one of the four grammar schools

Not all Secondary Modern schools were poor.the one I taught at in the 60s/70s was first choice for a lot of parents. The pupils could do O levels as well as CSEs .All levels were catered for.

growstuff

All the grammar schools in my area were single sex, so there was no question of giving more places to boys to make sure there was a 50/50 split.

We had 3 grammar schools in our area, one each single sex and one co-ed. I'm pretty sure it was well known that the boys' school accepted boys with a lower pass mark than my all-girls' grammar school. All 3 schools were pretty good and so were our local sec mods. Several girls from the secondary schools joined our 6th form as they'd done well at O-level.

I went to Grammar school in 1967. Six of us passed 3 girls and boys. I also would have hated not to pass and have to go to the secondary school. Rumour had it that you passed if your parents were farmers, had a shop or were just rich. I didn't come into any of those categories.

Was early 60s. Passed but didn't want to go, wanted the secondary school. Had an awful strop with parents and Headmaster of primary. Best friends hadnt passed, but had top grades for other school. Parents gave in and I enjoyed every minute at Secondary. Given opportunity to move to other school when 15 to continue education. Took it up, best of both worlds.

I went to a girls single sex grammar school. The boys grammar school was not too far away. All the girls used to go mad if they saw any young males near the school (even the poor unsuspecting gardeners, window cleaners, workmen etc). Looking back I don't think single sex schools prepare children for sone aspects of adulthood - we all thought young males were like aliens!

My area had single sex grammar schools, mine the girls’ had 3 forms of entry 96 places per year, my husband’s had 4 forms 128 places each year.

I went to school in Kent where there were Technical schools as well as Grammars and Secondary Moderns. Those getting top marks in the 11+ went to Grammar and the next 10% went to Technical.

Those who just failed the 11+ could resit at 13 and go to the Technical school. Anyone in the top stream at the Secondary Modern who wanted to stay past 15 and take O levels could go to the Technical school and take the exams at 17 instead of 16.

The girls Grammar schools were strict and aspirational. The Secondary Moderns largely taught cooking, sewing, childcare and homecare. All schools were single sex.

My Catholic grammar school was single, there was one for boys too.
The other grammar schools in our town were mixed.

In my area there are three grammar schools, one mixed, and two single sex, but there are other selective schools a short train ride away, so I don't know how that affects numbers allocated to boys or girls.
Neither I, nor any of my children, received a gift for their results at eleven, although my son's godmother sent him a book token the week after the tests to compensate him for having to take part in such a system!

Mirren

Probably explains an injustice that's made me cross all my life ... Which involved my Mum , not me .
Born in 1933 she was a bright child who passed the 11 plus easily and should have gone to the Grammar school like her big boy.
Unfortunately she was told there " wasn't a place" for her and she went to the local secondary modern.
A year later a place miraculously came available for her at the Grammar school. My Mum was always feisty and had settled so refused to go , on principle.
My grandparents obviously didn't have any high expectations of girls because they didn't encourage her to move.
She left school at 14 , becoming a window dresser and then learning typing and became a typist.
She was always highly intelligent.
The year I went to uni she was also accepted into Durham University to study to be a priest.
She was one of the first women ordained into the priest hood at, Durham Cathedral in about 1993 and worked as a priest until her retirement.
After retirement, with the support of my Dad , she followed an Open University course and managed to finish this after Dad died .
I had the great privilege of walking my Mum , in her cap and gown, across the stage at the Sage in Gateshead on the day she graduated and earned her degree.
She was 82, the oldest graduate they'd had and she was a bit wobbly on her pins.
Sadly,she died in 2018, still holding on to her dreams of completing her Masters.
How I miss my wonderful Mum .

Aw! re your mum. What a shame that there was that unfairness to her at the outset. Good for her that she did eventually get a job more worthy of her and did the OU course.

That was really nice that she got her degree eventually and that you were able to be with her then. I always think "Good for them" for anyone that obtains a major objective at the age at which most people are putting their feet up.