Grammar schools - 1960s/1970s

I went to a selective church school so not sure where that would have sat in the grammar/sec mod system

Cumbrianmale56 I actually work in one. My child is at secondary still so it’s interesting to see what little difference there is between both types of school. Although my child’s school has non-academic pupils and provides education for them accordingly.

“Astitchintime

Calendargirl
Also, my DD was one of the oldest in her year, this went against her I believe, as we were told children with ‘summer’ birthdays were given more leeway.
I heard the same too Calendargirl.”

It wasn’t so much “leeway” as having a small handicap, after all, my daughter, for example born on 30th August, was almost an entire year younger than some of her peers.

growstuff

All the grammar schools in my area were single sex, so there was no question of giving more places to boys to make sure there was a 50/50 split.

My area too, which might also be your area? Not many counties have Grammar Schools, but ours have NEVER been co-ed.

PaperMonster2

I do wonder what the point of grammar schools is nowadays.

It's harder to prove now as they've been gone for over 50 years in most parts of the country. Most comprehensives have ditched the mixed ability classes that gave them a bad reputation in the seventies and eighties. Now they seem to stream pupils by their ability and concentrate more on vocational education for less academic pupils.. Can't really see any point in bringing back a type of school that has been gone for such a long time.
Grammars did have a point in the 1950s and 60s when they were seen as offering a similar education to a public school for free, and this helped poorer pupils achieve a good education.

I do wonder what the point of grammar schools is nowadays.

One of DH's university friends passed the 13+. He was from Wolverhampton? Did that happen everywhere?

DH's school was a Direct Grabt Grammar Schhol. Free for people who lived in the catchment area and who passed 11+.

DH lived out of catchment so his parents paid privately for him and his younger brother to attend.

Calendargirl

Also, my DD was one of the oldest in her year, this went against her I believe, as we were told children with ‘summer’ birthdays were given more leeway.

I heard the same too Calendargirl.

I passed my 11+ in Wales in 1954.I was just 10. This was quite normal in Wales at the time. If it was thought you could pass you could try at 10. I was due to go to an all girls grammar school
However that summer we moved to England and I went to a co-ed grammar. Equal numbers of girls and boys.
When I went to college I had to do an extra year as I was to young to take the final examination.

Bumping up this thread, I think grammar schools gave working class pupils a chance to have a very good education, similar to a public school, for free. If a pupil was determined enough and the school encouraged them, then they could attend a top university.

butterandjam

growstuff

All the grammar schools in my area were single sex, so there was no question of giving more places to boys to make sure there was a 50/50 split.

Same here. There were no co-educational grammar schools in our county , they were all single-sex.

My kids were educated in Scotland where all state secondary schools are mixed, comprehensive ( non-selective) and run by the local council (no "academies").

Scotland was the first part of the country to ditch grammar schools and had completed the process by the early seventies. A lot had to with which party was running the LEA: Labour ones were far quicker to move to comprehensivs, which explains why grammar schools disappeared first in Scotland, South Wales and the North East. The areas where the handful of grammar schools remain are mostly Conservative.

growstuff

All the grammar schools in my area were single sex, so there was no question of giving more places to boys to make sure there was a 50/50 split.

Same here. There were no co-educational grammar schools in our county , they were all single-sex.

My kids were educated in Scotland where all state secondary schools are mixed, comprehensive ( non-selective) and run by the local council (no "academies").

Oh that's interesting.
The ones I knew (three of them) had both boys and girls schools operating separately (so six in total) -two had the boys and girls on entirely different sites.

NotSpaghetti

But surely most grammar schools were single sex?

In some areas they were, others not, probably due to the cost of maintainting two seperate schools. The grammar schools local to me were always mixed, even when they were fully selective.

But surely most grammar schools were single sex?

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Mine was a Catholic grammar school.
It had a mix of families - lots of poorer and some wealthier.
Lots of Irish.
I don't remember any Muslim girls but we had some anglicans and several Jewish girls (whose families chose our school over other local grammar schools) one who I was friends with.

I think we were quite a mixed bunch.

I attended a school reunion for my first school- I've outlined the odd 13 plus system Cumberland had until 1984- which was a mixture of a secondary modern and a comprehensive with no sixth form and mostly CSE subjects. One of the comments that was raised was how snobbish some people became when they went to the grammar school and how working class kids who transferred were sometimes looked down on. A couple of us who lived in rented housing had this experience.

Chardy

Allira as far as the 60s goes I can only speak of my own experience. The O level option list at my school could allow you to drop one or 2 of the 3 sciences (that's not acceptable now btw), you could do history or geography or both. Some people did Art, some Home Economics, others did neither. I think you had to choose from about 8 different combinations of subjects.

We had to do at least one science, I chose physics as the biology and chemistry teachers I had were a real let down and bored me with the subjects. You were also encouraged to take at leasrt one language and had to chose either history or geography, or both. Being a grammar school, there were no craft subjects( secondary moderns for those), but you could take a subject called technology, which was like applied physics.

Allira as far as the 60s goes I can only speak of my own experience. The O level option list at my school could allow you to drop one or 2 of the 3 sciences (that's not acceptable now btw), you could do history or geography or both. Some people did Art, some Home Economics, others did neither. I think you had to choose from about 8 different combinations of subjects.

We took 8 O levels, as the school considered this to be enough to give you a broad education and universities never asked for more than 7 ot 8 O levels. I know of schools where pupils had to sit 10 O levels, but surely studying so many subjects could put too much pressure in pupils and many would probably flunk a subject or two they weren't interested in.

Chardy

Granmarderby10

The opportunities were there for the taking if you stuck with it and there were second chances along the way.
Nowdays everyone is pigeon holed from age 11 with these early “choices” and then funnelled through the system accordingly.
I find today’s educational systems repressive.

Granmarderby10 Why do you say everyone is pigeon holed from age 11? All pupils study the same thing until 14 when they choose their GCSE options, same as we did in the 60s with our exams

They do have choice now, although they have to take core subjects. I do believe there might be too much choice.

Back in the 1960s we had no choice, we took 9 subjects at GCE and there were no options.

Myself and my school friend who did day release from 16 fell into the work routine easily after 2 or 3 yrs a year at college we were qualified craftsmen, I went on to an extra year management course. After college some changed direction but whatever they chose there were plenty of opportunities.

Today it’s the transition from school to the adult job market that’s the problem, at school you are learning something new every day, as a junior at work you are repeating the same task which is likely boring and menial, many just can’t handle that away from their mates.

We had a semi selective system, 13 plus, 2 years for everyone in a secondary modern, then 3 years in a grammar school of sorts or stay in the secondary modern. It was some kind of hybrid system the county council introduced in 1967 to avoid going fully comprehensive. It never worked properly as pushy middle class parents made sure their children went to the grammar school even if they weren't good enough and the secondary modern only taught subjects to CSE level wirh less qualified teachers. In 1984, this weird system was finally axed when the county went fully comprehensive.

I left school and didn't do A levels. My dad died just after I started at grammar school and then my mother remarried. He was a disaster and I was very unhappy. He ruined my dad's business, went off with all the money and left my mother destitute. So yes my teens were messed up and at 17 I got married and at 18 I was a mother.

When I sorted myself out I asked my boss for day release to do an HND and went on to a degree. He asked if I could do five days work in four and I said yes so he signed it off. I did four years, had two kids and id be in work at 8 am to make sure everything was done before I went to college. I took work home on top of my college work.

So I agree there were opportunities.