Armed forces for gap year

I m with you ALL the way Nanna8 I dislike the thoughts of teaching children to use guns and how to handle violence I d much rather see a type of Peace corp which I think is something other countries have done for years

Horrible idea teaching people to kill and maim the enemy, whoever that is at a y particular time. Then I tend to be a pacifist.

AlliraYes, but I was responding to a post which suggested that every school leaver should do a year's voluntary work and I went on to discuss quite clearly what work they would end up doing. Absolutely no mention of this army scheme.

In fact, as I said at the start of my post, Our under-number, under and under resourced, and over committed armed forces have more than enough to do with fulfilling their main requirement of definding this country in a complex world to want take on even 100, let alone 1,000 youngsters who fancy playing soldiers for a year.

It is nice to talk about a years voluntary service, but there are well in excess of 350,000 school leavers every year. Exactly how would you fid jobs appropriate to each child, plus full criminal checks.

The initial number is 150 increasing to 1,000 if this is successful.

It's not every school leaver, it's a minute number and of course they will be interviewed and vetted.

We have under-sized highly technically trained armed services, facing an increasing number of threats from hostile countries. They do not have the time or resources to wet nurse a bundle of school leavers who think it might be fun to play being soldiers for a year.

We have a territorial army of reservists, why not encourage these youngsters to join the territorial army instead.

It is nice to talk about a years voluntary service, but there are well in excess of 350,000 school leavers every year. Exactly how would you fid jobs appropriate to each child, plus full criminal checks.

Then what work would they do? Probably work now done by lower paid carers, manual workers and other people in marginal jobs. This will mean higher unemployment among this country's most marginal and poorly paid workers.

Sounds like a Green Party policy.

As for Anything has to be better than paying unemployed young people to stay at home in bed staring at their screens and phones. The solution is to make benefits for 16-21 year olds dependent on attendance at educational and vocational classes specifically designed for this particular group of youngsters.

The problem is that many of this lost group of school leavers and school truants, is that many are not claiming benefits, but, as many of them still live at home, they get by with doing odd jobs for cash or working on the black.

Iam64

It seems a good idea to me. I see some positives in military experience

Agreed.

I have hope young people taking up this scheme work out if the military may be a life choice they'd perhaps find enjoyable.

It seems a good idea to me. I see some positives in military experience

There is no way conscription would come back as it's massively expensive and the military only want volunteers. Also most young people would refuse to serve anyway.
I think the best way to increase armed forces numbers is through this gap year programme, and by increasing armed forces pay. An army driver earns 29k, while a civilian HGV driver can earn 40-50k, which means it's harder to recruit and retain personnel.

Doodledog

It is wrong that people need to get into debt to get an education, I agree.

I don't honestly see that this means that those who want to take up this offer should not be allowed to do so though. They are two separate things.

Yes.

It sonly 150 places increasing, if successful, to 1,000.
It means those who may not want to commit to joining the Armed Forces in order to go through university can have a taster 12 months first, without having to sign on for a period of time, although that is comparatively short compared to what it was years ago.

My hope is that one day all young people can get such an education paid for in ways that do not require them to have an interest in the armed forces.

Remember sandwich courses?
We need more schemes like that.

There are such schemes or similar now, but there is fierce competition for places.

It is wrong that people need to get into debt to get an education, I agree.

I don't honestly see that this means that those who want to take up this offer should not be allowed to do so though. They are two separate things.

Luckygirl3

It is indeed voluntary, but seems to be being sold as a way of getting an education. My hope is that one day all young people can get such an education paid for in ways that do not require them to have an interest in the armed forces. It seems a bit unfair that those with no military ambitions cannot receive what they need without going into massive debt. Their future value to society is also important.

Well said, Luckygirl.

BlueBelle

Well better than being on the dole surely and they could do what mine all did work part time weekends or evenings or both

The alternative is not on the dole

The alternative might be an apprenticeship or full-time work where they are paid.

Not every family can afford for their child to do voluntary work for a year (despite having a weekend job too) or going off on a gap year.

We need more schemes like this one, more apprenticeships and opportunities for young people.

Well better than being on the dole surely and they could do what mine all did work part time weekends or evenings or both

Not all can afford to do voluntary work though.
Their parents might not be able to keep them if they themselves are struggling.

My personal view is that all children leaving school should do a year in voluntary work before going on to whatever they are going on to
But no I don’t agree with compulsory military service

butterandjam

Oreo

There’s nothing compulsory about it.
It’s to give a taste of the military life with no commitment beyond the year and is paid.
I think it’s an excellent idea but the number of 150 is way way too few.

I50 is the pilot scheme number; it will expand to 1000.

Anything has to be better than paying unemployed young people to stay at home in bed staring at their screens and phones.

Anything has to be better than paying unemployed young people to stay at home in bed staring at their screens and phones.

The ones that do that will not be the ones applying for this scheme.

Oreo

There’s nothing compulsory about it.
It’s to give a taste of the military life with no commitment beyond the year and is paid.
I think it’s an excellent idea but the number of 150 is way way too few.

I50 is the pilot scheme number; it will expand to 1000.

Anything has to be better than paying unemployed young people to stay at home in bed staring at their screens and phones.

I think that complaining about this scheme not being the same as a free education for all is letting great become the enemy of good.

I would be first in the queue to sign a petition for free education. I have marched in favour of it and lost pay by striking over its loss, but that doesn't mean that I would stand in the way of other initiatives that seem also to be good for young people because free education was taken away.

I wouldn't like to see conscription into military service return, but I don't see this as the same at all, and there is nothing I can see that suggests that it would become compulsory. If (Heaven forbid) the UK gets involved in a land war, conscription would become necessary, but it would be very different from this scheme as it would be a case of fight or die.

For decades we have lived with the understanding that the US would lead NATO and that therefore we are not at risk of invasion or attack. That has changed under Trump, and who knows if or when the situation will change. It is, therefore, important that we take some measures to protect ourselves, and this would seem to be a good start.

I think it is far more sensible use of time than a gap year.
At present an experiment but if successful it will be expanded.
I would have been agreeable if my children had wanted to try it.

Luckygirl3

It is indeed voluntary, but seems to be being sold as a way of getting an education. My hope is that one day all young people can get such an education paid for in ways that do not require them to have an interest in the armed forces. It seems a bit unfair that those with no military ambitions cannot receive what they need without going into massive debt. Their future value to society is also important.

Anyone can apply for an apprenticeship...and thats all this is ...not even a full apprenticeship....just a taster ...its not a substitute for uni....if young people fancy having a go...thats great...if they don't thats fine too....we can't go back in time ...and if we did , uni would be far less inclusive....hardly anyone went back in my day ( I'm 60) ....not one of my friends went...me included....I now have a masters but all paid by the nhs ....there's ways and means of getting an education paid for if you look for them

Luckygirl3

Just seen this on news. Hailed as an opportunity for learning skills and being paid. While a young person wishing to take a degree has to get themselves into massive debt.
What a shame that they have to embrace the military to get a good educational deal.

UK military services have always offered to fund an entire University undergrad course in various specialties ( Medicine is one) . In exchange the successful student is committed to serve for x years.

It is indeed voluntary, but seems to be being sold as a way of getting an education. My hope is that one day all young people can get such an education paid for in ways that do not require them to have an interest in the armed forces. It seems a bit unfair that those with no military ambitions cannot receive what they need without going into massive debt. Their future value to society is also important.

Allira

^What concerns me is that it could easily, over a period of years, become, first of all, a usual and acceptable way of spending a gap year, then drifting into being compulsory for anyone wishing to do a university course and finally becoming compulsory for all 18 year olds. I very much hope I am wrong.^

I can't see that happening unless we find ourselves at war, in which case there would be no luxury of a gap year style entry or paid university courses.

Voluteers, not compulsory.

Fine if that is what a young person desires. Not a choice I'd want ours to have made. Merely a different choice for gap year.

Excellent post Doodledog.