Should we be teaching children to write?

Mamie
^ I should probably have added the word now to the end of the original question.^😂

Yes, that’s different. Now I would probably make tough notes either on my computer or by hand, so much easier when you’re looking for info or references from books.
Then I’d dictate my thesis onto a computer, use spell check and a word counter, in addition to proof reading it.

Another few years down the line and I’d possibly feed in the title and ask AI to find me quotes, or maybe even produce the thesis.
At the time I did the same as butterandjam and paid for them to be typed up.
Only my Child Study remained hand written as I had to stick in photos and examples from the subject of my study, but that was only 5,000 words.

butterandjam

Mollygo

Mamie
Would you write a 10,000 word thesis by hand?
Had to do two of them in my final year.

I did.
Then I paid someone to type it out on a typewriter.

I should probably have added the word now to the end of the original question. 😂

Mollygo

Mamie
Would you write a 10,000 word thesis by hand?
Had to do two of them in my final year.

I did.
Then I paid someone to type it out on a typewriter.

Doodledog

I do both. I can type as I think, so often do - particularly if I want to keep a record of whatever it is I'm writing. A shopping list or something is just as likely to be done in the Notes app on my phone as on the back of an envelope - much depends on where I am and what is to hand when I remember I've run out of something.

I prefer to write creatively using a pencil, which is probably because of the neural pathways thing mentioned upthread. I rub things out when I reword bits, and I used to type it up when I was happy with the result. Now I have a digital notebook, which I absolutely love. I write on it with a special pencil (which feels exactly like writing on paper) and it synchs to my laptop, phone and iPad as soon as I am on wifi. I can alter, delete and add to documents from any of the devices, and organise documents into folders. It is absolutely the best of both worlds.

I do think it's important to be able to write (as opposed to type) though. Imagine being kidnapped and needing to put a HELP! note in the window, or being stranded on a desert island and being able to send a message in a bottle, or scribbling your number to hand to George Clooney when he asks for it. You could do none of those things if you couldn't write. And yes, of course it's important to be able to manage in the event of a lengthy power failure.

As I said, I think the way handwriting is taught at Key Stage 1 is fine and I like the emphasis on extra support for children who struggle. I don't think you need go much further than Key Stage 1 for a HELP notice. If there is a lengthy blackout a shopping list with "candles" on it would be useful. 😊
I tend to use notes on my ipad a lot, then draft and edit on Pages.

I do both. I can type as I think, so often do - particularly if I want to keep a record of whatever it is I'm writing. A shopping list or something is just as likely to be done in the Notes app on my phone as on the back of an envelope - much depends on where I am and what is to hand when I remember I've run out of something.

I prefer to write creatively using a pencil, which is probably because of the neural pathways thing mentioned upthread. I rub things out when I reword bits, and I used to type it up when I was happy with the result. Now I have a digital notebook, which I absolutely love. I write on it with a special pencil (which feels exactly like writing on paper) and it synchs to my laptop, phone and iPad as soon as I am on wifi. I can alter, delete and add to documents from any of the devices, and organise documents into folders. It is absolutely the best of both worlds.

I do think it's important to be able to write (as opposed to type) though. Imagine being kidnapped and needing to put a HELP! note in the window, or being stranded on a desert island and being able to send a message in a bottle, or scribbling your number to hand to George Clooney when he asks for it. You could do none of those things if you couldn't write. And yes, of course it's important to be able to manage in the event of a lengthy power failure.

Mamie

SueDonim

My other son, also a professor, writes his drafts longhand, so yes, he’d write a thesis. I don’t know why you are so insistent that there’s no place for ‘pretty marks on paper’.

If that is what people want to do then fine. Nobody is stopping them. Of course we all wrote essays and theses by hand back then. Collaborating, sharing and reviewing was a lengthy process.
As far as the skills needed for wider communication in today's workplace are concerned, I can't believe that handwriting is still high on the list. My family all have jobs that involve writing and communicating with colleagues nationally and internationally with deadlines to meet.
If all electronic communications fail I also can't see how anything would get from A to B.

If all electronic communications fail, communications would get from one person to another the same way as they did before the electronic communications existed.

That is, by letters, notes, packages delivered by servants, by secret Valentines slipped into a pocket when the recipient wasn't looking, by memos carried by hand round a factory and handed to the foreman, by messengers running from one firm's office to another, by couriers on horseback and later on bicycles, by the Pony Express, by local and national postal delivery organisations, by mail carried on board ships from one country to another.

For all of these there was a necessity to write legibly the information or sentiments that you wanted to express, and the person who received it had to be able to read it.. There is a story of an old lady before the days of the Penny Post and prepaid delivery. Once a month, the courier brought a letter addressed to her, which she would take, look at the cover without opening it, and return, saying she wasn't accepting it. The courier decided after a while that she couldn't afford to pay for the delivery, and so did her neighbours. They hatched a plot to pay for it so that she could read the letter. However, she wasn't grateful. She said "They don't say anything anyway. I can't read, and my son in the city doesn't write very well, so he just puts my name and address on. If a letter arrives and I recognise his writing, I know he is all right and I don't need to worry about him."

The transport of messages had to be paid for, of course. To begin with the recipient had to pay. Then you could subscribe to a service (Early 19th Century novels are full of people writing home daily from visits to richer relatives in letters sent via the postal services paid for by their hosts) In 1840 the first UK nationwide pre-paid postal service - you bought a penny stamp with the Queen's head on it, and stuck it as a receipt on your letter before putting in a red pillar box, and it was delivered without costing the recipient anything.

It isn't a penny now!!

Who dreamt that up? Of course we should all learn to read and write. Its basic.

butterandjam

Being able to exchange and record information by writing it down, is almost as vital as being able to read. The simplest tools are paper and pencil.

Quite so.

There will be many situations where this is essential - not least during a power outage.

Hand writing is a skill that should not be discarded IMO - it doesn't have to be 'beautiful', just legible.

Although to be strictly accurate, in later years I always typed lengthy documents!

SueDonim

My other son, also a professor, writes his drafts longhand, so yes, he’d write a thesis. I don’t know why you are so insistent that there’s no place for ‘pretty marks on paper’.

If that is what people want to do then fine. Nobody is stopping them. Of course we all wrote essays and theses by hand back then. Collaborating, sharing and reviewing was a lengthy process.
As far as the skills needed for wider communication in today's workplace are concerned, I can't believe that handwriting is still high on the list. My family all have jobs that involve writing and communicating with colleagues nationally and internationally with deadlines to meet.
If all electronic communications fail I also can't see how anything would get from A to B.

butterandjam

It's not hard to imagine cyber attacks which cancel electronic communication systems. What better way for an enemy country, or a dictator, to dominate/ suppress/ control huge geographic areas; an economy; any resistance.
Or, imagine a political confrontation in which AI becomes a weapon so dangerous to civil society that a govt is forced to shut down its means of transmission. Society forced to live without internet or electronic media.

Being able to exchange and record information by writing it down, is almost as vital as being able to read. The simplest tools are paper and pencil.

Electronic version of Fahrenheit 451. Funny how so many dystopia fiction books are starting to look more relevant every day.

The apps that worry be most are period trackers. That has a huge potential to spy on women.

My other son, also a professor, writes his drafts longhand, so yes, he’d write a thesis. I don’t know why you are so insistent that there’s no place for ‘pretty marks on paper’.

Mamie
Would you write a 10,000 word thesis by hand?
Had to do two of them in my final year.

It's not hard to imagine cyber attacks which cancel electronic communication systems. What better way for an enemy country, or a dictator, to dominate/ suppress/ control huge geographic areas; an economy; any resistance.
Or, imagine a political confrontation in which AI becomes a weapon so dangerous to civil society that a govt is forced to shut down its means of transmission. Society forced to live without internet or electronic media.

Being able to exchange and record information by writing it down, is almost as vital as being able to read. The simplest tools are paper and pencil.

SueDonim

I’m not sure what technology that enables children to speak has to do with handwriting.

One example would be using the tiniest of head movements to write and select words that a voice synthesizer would produce. The technology has advanced enormously since I was working in the field, but from word processors for children with dyspraxia to assistive technology for people with severe disabilities, technology enables people to write.
Would you write a 10,000 word thesis by hand?

I’m not sure what technology that enables children to speak has to do with handwriting.

SueDonim

I had a conversation with my son, who’s a professor of psychology, about this. He was horrified at the idea! He said that on practical terms, normal size keyboards are not suitable for tiny hands and there would be a need for smaller, child-friendly ones. A d do we want children to be tied to screens? Then there’s the issue of if the lights go out.

Learning to hand write develops different neural pathways from keyboard use and exercises fine motor skills. Copying by hand is important for learning to spell and again, the written word uses different pathways in the brain. Indeed, reading a paper book v reading an ebook also uses different areas of the brain and you are much more likely to retain words from a paper book than a screen. He says that if you delegate skills such as spelling and writing to technology, essentially you are outsourcing your brain, when what you need to do is keep the brain busy and active.

We developed small keyboards in the 1980s for children with muscular dystrophy who had an increasingly limited range of movement as their illness progressed. We had keyboards and Makaton symbols that could be accessed by the tiniest of head movements.
If you had been present when children were able to speak for the first time through a voice synthesizer you might have a different view,
I have no problem with the Key Stage 1 requirements for learning to write by hand. As I said before, I disagree when an emphasis on beautiful handwriting gets in the way of learning to write.

To me the personal touch of pen to paper is crucial. A typed letter, unless a business letter, would be horrible. I keep a diary, just a daily account of events, and I can’t imagine typing that, though I suppose it would be more legible if I did. I had beautiful handwriting when at school, but it has deteriorated hugely, because I am always in such a hurry to get my thoughts down. My mother said that university ruined her handwriting - all that hurried note-taking in lectures.

Apparently hand writing for fifteen minutes a day can also keep the brain working well and ward off dementia.

I remember applying for a job many years ago, when you still applied with a letter rather than a CV, I had always been made to believe my handwritten wasn't that good so asked my then boyfriend ( later DH) to write the letter for me, I got the job and was complimented on "my" neat handwritten application , as the job involved a lot of handwriting.😂. It didn't really matter as it was mainly tickets I was writing so could do it in capital letters. I stayed nearly 8 yrs so must have been ok.

Writing is absolutely necessary, not only to build language skills and expand young minds with little experience beyond looking at screens, but to provide the mental agility needed to build ideas. Predictive text and AI are no help here! I do wonder if the all too regular horrific instances of young people stabbing each other is due in large part to them not having a good enough vocabulary to help them avoid violent confrontation.

Our daughter -as per government dictum- has to teach primary children exercises to endow them with upper body ‘strength’ which apparently most children lack - in order for them to acquire the ‘fine motor skills’ necessary handwriting 😳 heaven forfend that fountain pens ✒️ make a comeback.

Good comment SueDonim

I had a conversation with my son, who’s a professor of psychology, about this. He was horrified at the idea! He said that on practical terms, normal size keyboards are not suitable for tiny hands and there would be a need for smaller, child-friendly ones. A d do we want children to be tied to screens? Then there’s the issue of if the lights go out.

Learning to hand write develops different neural pathways from keyboard use and exercises fine motor skills. Copying by hand is important for learning to spell and again, the written word uses different pathways in the brain. Indeed, reading a paper book v reading an ebook also uses different areas of the brain and you are much more likely to retain words from a paper book than a screen. He says that if you delegate skills such as spelling and writing to technology, essentially you are outsourcing your brain, when what you need to do is keep the brain busy and active.

Seems humans may have been writing for a great deal longer than originally thought.

Would be one hell of a shame if all of that history and richness ended now because we’ve become lazy.

www.popularmechanics.com/science/archaeology/a70526396/archaeologists-may-have-discovered-the-oldest-form-of-writingever/