“We start school too early in the UK!”

I find the references to ‘formal education’ really interesting, and wonder exactly what people mean when they say that. Do they believe that nursery or kindergarten are ‘just playing’, or at best, ‘learning through play’, though that’s something which can be seen to continue long after age seven. ‘ Hands on’ and self directed learning is much more common ( and effective) now, and the days of what someone referred to as sitting at a desk for six or seven hours a day are thankfully long gone. Could that be what people consider formal education to be? I suggest they could be in for a shock if they were to visit many a classroom today, as they are hives of activity, with some fabulous learning happening.

I was just writing to say that even children that have interrupted education can succeed

At age 11 I spent a lot of time hospitalised with hip problems .
Thankfully my teacher and school recognised my ability were able to put me forward for grammar school .
I recovered after a long time in hospital. .
Went to the g1981rammar school, obtained excellent exam results and have been a doctor since 19800

The reception class at the school that three of my four grandchildren attended from the age of 4 (and that the fourth will join in September) seems to be very flexible on'formal' learning in those early years. Their main aim that year seems to be to settle the children in happily and provide a positive experience. There is a huge emphasis on learning through play, and no pressure whatsoever (not from the staff, anyway, though cant speak for all of the parents) on them to learn formally.

I remember when my first DGC started there - he was one of the younger ones (as was DGC number three, and as number four will be too) and could barely even stay awake through the day, and there is no way he would do any of the 'homework' that was suggested. Fortunately, when this was discussed, the teacher made it absolutely clear that the children should absolutely not be pushed to do it at that stage as doing that could so easily be damaging.
That first year was, and still is in that school, about laying the ground for the future, and it seems to work very well indeed.

I suppose that what I am trying to say is that just because we call it school, rather than kindergarten or anything else, it doesn't have to mean that the children are being pushed to learn any more than children of a similar age in other country where there is a different name for that level of childcare/ education.

Macaydia

Very interesting that you should mention that. My aunt who was a Community Nurse said that after delivering thousands of babies, the girls are more mature and alert than the boys, right after birth.

Not always - my first DS was always very old for his age, particularly as a pre-schooler.

When my DF died suddenly & he was 3, he was chatting to my Mum & found out she's never slept on her own in her life.

He came & told me that, & I slept with her for a few nights just to take the edge off.It wouldn't have occurred to me.

He was bright too, but mainly always thoughtful & watchful, as long back as I can remember.

Auntie E, your post at 18:57 seems to be leaning towards the wellbeing of the teacher and not the child.

Chocolatelovinggran

Macaydia, I'm not sure that I understand the relevance of your post at 15.25.
I breastfed my four children, and my three daughters breastfed theirs.
All of those babies were weaned from the breast between one and two, so I cannot see how this matters in discussing school entry ages.

Correct. My post was irrelevant to the subject of school age children.

The Summerhill philosophy might have been started by Plato centuries ago. One can argue either way as someone pointed out that each child responds to formal education differently, even when in the same family. It has been my philosophy that if you bring a child into this world, the intent should be that the child is raised to make this world a better place than before they came into it.

I grew up abroad and was at kindergarten from 3 to 6, then started primary school at 6. At 8 I returned with my family to England and found myself near the top of my English primary school class. I found out that the others had all started school at 5, and without any pre-school, playgroup or kindergarten experience. So that year I "lost", didn't seem to do me any harm at all. The age of 6 seems an optimal age to begin formal learning. Before that, learning from being allowed to play under skilled supervision, makes a very valuable contribution.

I believe 4 is far too young to start formal schooling. Many children of this age are still very immature, and struggle badly with being separated from their mothers for such long periods. In my opinion, a shorter day with constructive play, is much better for them.

Some children are ready to start school at five, I was, and have always been thankful we were living in Scotland then, and not in Denmark. I would have been bored out of my mind if I had had to stay day in and day out at home until I was seven.

Some children are ready to start school at six, and some not until they are seven.

What we should consider in all countries is assessing children at age five, six and seven and letting them start school when they are ready.

And NO: teachers teach, parents and grandparents SHOULD NOT.

There is nothing worse when teaching either a kindergarten class or Primary 1 then discovering that a third of the class can already read, some well, others very badly because adults with no knowledge of how to teach have attempted to teach the alphabet or primary reading skills.

And while you are trying kindly to teach children the ministry-preferred method, instead of their parents' no method at all teaching, you also have another fifteen or sixteen children who start school with none of the skills it is the school's purpose to teach them.

Macaydia, I'm not sure that I understand the relevance of your post at 15.25.
I breastfed my four children, and my three daughters breastfed theirs.
All of those babies were weaned from the breast between one and two, so I cannot see how this matters in discussing school entry ages.

I think the problem is that one size doesn’t fit all. My eldest DD couldn’t wait to get to school at five but her sister hated it and would have definitely benefitted from starting formal education later. So I don’t know what the answer is, you can’t choose as a parent because that just wouldn’t work,

I agree they start school too early. Here’s a radical money saving idea, we cut school provision for under 5/6s and use the money on “constructive” childcare placements. I don’t think it matters if a child cannot read at age 6 as long as there is good quality education after that. Of course there will always be parents who think it is a race to have their child reading earlier than other children but in the end, by the time they are adults, this is not a measure of happiness or success in life!

Macaydia

To Mamie who asked me, "Do you think you have the right to judge other people's life choices?"
No, Mamie. I am not a judge and yes, I do state my opinion on matters, even if it's unpopular.

My opinion is that the important thing is that the children that we bring up are healthy, responsible citizens who go on to parent the next generation successfully. In my 76 years I have never seen any evidence that this is solely restricted to stay at home mothers. My grandmother worked full time, my mother, myself and my daughter the same. My granddaughters have embarked on their careers with a good work ethic.

Comment was for winterwhite

I think i lost my place.

Very interesting that you should mention that. My aunt who was a Community Nurse said that after delivering thousands of babies, the girls are more mature and alert than the boys, right after birth.

Whatever happened to the Sixties AS Neil Summerhill brigade.

Who thought that self directed learning and self regulation for children would cure the Worlds problems.

Was big with the London chattering classes at the time and feckless, upper class, hippy types who wanted to be seen as leading edge trendsetters.

Far out and solid Man!

I sure hope a father is capable but I haven't had any luck with that experience, myself and have only met a few capable and seen hordes of ignorant fathers who walk away from their children's lives. I have seen some incapable mothers too, usually mental illness related.

Macaydia

Babies and raising children is a full time job. Anyone can replace an employee at the workplace but no one can replace a (loving) mother in the home.

Are you suggesting that a father isn't just as capable of looking after his own children?

Observations from my own family are that many girls are ready to learn at age 4 but many boys are not. Girls retain this advantage until the mid teens. At that age boys have a 'brain' growth spurt but girls do not.
So delaying the start of formal education until 6/7 would be a disadvantage for girls it seems to me,

Our children were brought up in the Netherlands. They start school on their 4th birthday but learn through play. They do not start formal education until they are six when they learn very quickly.

Q) Why do males of every mammal species not produce milk?

A) By design.

Paperbackwriter
Other gender parents are also available for the raising of children.

Women, by design, are built for raising their children, up to a certain age. Men are made for allowing the mother to safely nurture their offspring. Exceptions are made for anomolies.

Statistically, the child is safer with a female kindergarten teacher and not a male.

When I started school in the 50s we went first term after our 5th birthday. When I started I could already read and do simple 'sums' as we used to call it. All learnt by every day things such as reading with parents, nan etc. We used to have a nap every afternoon after lunch on little camp beds and playtime before hometime. I think early education should start informally and without pressure, if kids are enjoying things and having fun, education sinks in of its accord. We put far too much pressure on all kids with formal education these days, it's no wonder they are growing up with mental problems.

To Mamie who asked me, "Do you think you have the right to judge other people's life choices?"
No, Mamie. I am not a judge and yes, I do state my opinion on matters, even if it's unpopular.