“We start school too early in the UK!”

In the Maternelle and nursery classes in France, children can start school once they are toilet trained. Formal education is compulsory from the age of three. From what I saw they are focussed on learning pre-school skills to be ready for the first Primary School class at 6.
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Mollygo

NotSpaghetti
Learning through play was what children used to do in a home situation-one adult to very few children.
The situations arose naturally, e.g. properties of wet and dry sand through play in a sandpit, (we had sand in a baby bath).
Or sorting things, buttons, toy cars etc. Cutting out paper dolls and clothes (scissor skills) then playing with them, (imaginative play. Building with wooden bricks or Lego bricks and finding out which structures were stronger. Involving adults in games and imaginative play, usually mum or grandma, but dads and granddads also played a part.
The problem now is that no UK government will fund a sufficient staff to child ratio for all children to benefit.
So learning through play, though effort is made to supply the necessary situations and equipment, is always going to be a watered down version of that parroted as the ideal from other countries.
Add to that that many parents of today’s children didn’t experience that for themselves so even if they keep their children off school (Covid) they don’t understand what learning through play involves.

Can't help but agree with this. I do not want the clock turned back nor women's opportunities curtailed, but I do think that small children are being sold short. They are being plunged into environments that require too much of them and supply little individual attention.

And then they are moved on to the demands of school which are too much too young. We then have an epidemic of diagnoses of neurodiversity of varying degrees. I am not suggesting for a moment that these problems do not exist, but the environments in which children are now raised are so abnormal to a child's nature that they throw up these problems as abnormalities in the child, rather than looking at the settings and diagnosing them.

I don't believe in governments raising a child and I don't think women should have children if they are not going to take responsibility for the child's upbringing I think there is validity in that statement, but would extend it to include both parents; and taking responsibility for a child's upbringing can also include settings outside of the home as long as these are age appropriate and sufficiently well-staffed and monitored and focus on learning through play in the under 7's.

Spending a while on Mumsnet can be interesting. The overwhelming thrust of posters' views is that women should be out in the workplace, primarily to protect themselves when their relationship breaks down - it is very depressing to read. And there are endless posts about how children are being diagnosed as ND, or having mental health problems in their teens. I do not know whether there is a causal relationship between this and their early child care experiences, but intuitively joining up the dots is tempting.

Whatever the facts might be, I feel very strongly that childhood is a precious and irreplaceable time in a person's life and the delaying of suppressing their natural instinct to imagine, play and explore the world with enthusiasm should be a priority.

And don't get me started on screens .........

Also, having worked with families who struggled to play with their children I do see the importance of good nursery provision.

Exactly Mollygo

My argument was really about learning through play for longer.

NotSpaghetti
Learning through play was what children used to do in a home situation-one adult to very few children.
The situations arose naturally, e.g. properties of wet and dry sand through play in a sandpit, (we had sand in a baby bath).
Or sorting things, buttons, toy cars etc. Cutting out paper dolls and clothes (scissor skills) then playing with them, (imaginative play. Building with wooden bricks or Lego bricks and finding out which structures were stronger. Involving adults in games and imaginative play, usually mum or grandma, but dads and granddads also played a part.
The problem now is that no UK government will fund a sufficient staff to child ratio for all children to benefit.
So learning through play, though effort is made to supply the necessary situations and equipment, is always going to be a watered down version of that parroted as the ideal from other countries.
Add to that that many parents of today’s children didn’t experience that for themselves so even if they keep their children off school (Covid) they don’t understand what learning through play involves.

My own school was a Montessori one.
I think it's a good system but schools do start too young here I feel.

Having lived in America where mandatory schooling starts between the ages of 5 and 8 I have no idea why we start so young.

States with a later compulsory starting age (7 or 8) do not perform worse by age 18 than states that start at 5. In fact, looking purely at "standard metrics" like high school graduation rates or adult literacy, the "late-starting" states often rank among the highest in the country.

I'm aware that this is a bit simplistic - but the 8 year old we knew in America were reading the same books as the 8 year old we knew in the UK.
It seems to me that introducing formal education later keeps children excited to learn and discover for longer.

It's a long time since I read papers and books on education so I'm not going to quote studies etc but learning through play for a bit longer seems to me to be a no-brainer.

Iam64

I’d expect preschool from age 3 and good nursery or childminder provision post maternity leave

I disagree. 3 is too young.

I received Montessori training via my work at a Montessori nursery, 3- starting school. Apart from the daily activities, the children learnt to hang up their own coats, change between indoor and outdoor shoes and use the toilet.

I’ve said for ages that kids start school too early. When we lived in another county my son did not start primary school until after his fifth birthday. He had a term there then we moved to an area where his classmates had already had a year at school. Some had also been to nursery school too which he never did.

He soon caught up and then overtook most of his classmates and went straight into top sets at High School.

One of my daughters was Montessori trained at the school she worked at post qualification. Sadly the inspirational head was forced out when it became an Academy..

I’d expect preschool from age 3 and good nursery or childminder provision post maternity leave

Casdon

Would lax parenting be more of an issue if school was not compulsory before the age of seven? I’d worry that some children would receive no education and would be even further behind their peers than they are now when they start school - unless nursery education was compulsory?

I think children from disadvantaged backgrounds will always be behind their peers in some ways. whatever age is chosen for the start of formal learning.
Hopefully Starmer's revival of the Sure Start equivalent might help the children who get a poorer start in life.

I agree with you Cossy and I would add time to learn life skills. My DGD is a teaching assistant in a reception class and some of them still need help to take their jumpers off when they are hot.

When I was 12 years old I learned about Japanese culture in school. One topic was education. I learned that in Japan, some children start school as early as age ONE - and some parents were saying that was already TOO LATE!!!

I had the best part of a year off school when I was 6/7.

One or two teachers came to see me and brought activities and books but I wasn’t well enough to do them, I could manage some reading and that was about all.

I somehow never fell behind and never had any extra tuition.

Would lax parenting be more of an issue if school was not compulsory before the age of seven? I’d worry that some children would receive no education and would be even further behind their peers than they are now when they start school - unless nursery education was compulsory?

Confidence - not coincidence!!

Two of mine spent some time in Steiner school. One was there from 9 to 14 because the state schools were failing her and destroying her coincidence. The other went up to age 7 when she went on to a good village school - she cherishes the wonderful times she had in kindergarten and nursery at the Steiner school. They filled her with confidence.

We used Montessori for one of our children, have nothing but praise for that system.

For another it was pre-prep, just what they needed.

Both thrived in their environments.

Nursery and Reception classes are learning through play, or at least the ones I have experience of are 🤷‍♀️

I have been banging on about this for years.

We stick these little ones in a formal learning setting far too young and then medicalise the problems that ensue.

Even very bright children for whom the academics are a doddle miss out on the joy of being a child.

Agree with you all absolutely.

Much prefer the Scandinavian model, plenty of outdoors activities, plenty of play, plenty of time to form friendships and build confidence.

Iam64

We start formal education too early. We don’t use play as a learning tool. We test them put them through exams to early and too often
No wonder anxiety is becoming frequent

Hear hear!

I absolutely agree. No problem with children entering kindergarten and nurseries early, childcare is required, many mothers work outside of the home.

Children need to learn through play and can do this until around 7 and formal education can start then.

We start formal education too early. We don’t use play as a learning tool. We test them put them through exams to early and too often
No wonder anxiety is becoming frequent