Early reading v continental custom - teachers’ thoughts sought

Our kids all loved to read ,the 6 year old has been reading since not long after her third birthday .
The school has her in a language and reading group 2 years older than her.
When she was sent back to her own age group for a different lesson she took the teacher aside and told her that these wee kids are very exuberant.
She’s a bright girl and it would be a shame if she was held back while children caught up with her .They will learn young if they are interested and nothing will stop them.
I was the same ,I had read books for much older children while I was still in primary school and in first year of high school had a nun who encouraged me while others lagged behind .

Greyduster What you say is so true.

I had a long discussion with DS a senior academic about the Jason Aday case.

In a broader discussion about diversity he commented that the biggest problem was not necessarily a question of poverty, although that is a contributor, but of the lack of social capital of so many children. They haven't been read to, they have never visited a museum, or art gallery, do not go for walks in the park and talk about what they see. Schools are now so narrowly concentrated on functional education that music, drama, art school visits to farms and other places are no longer provided in many areas.

Some children are very keen to read early, and take to it very easily.
Others, perhaps most especially some boys, just aren’t properly ready. I don’t think it at all a bad idea to leave formal teaching until 7, when they’ll all be that much more ready for it.

My Gds started reception at not much over 4 - he was always extremely active - a human hurricane - so trying to get him to read early on was painful. Of course he did it eventually, but leaving it for at least a year or two would have been much better for him, and for everyone else who had to try to get him to do it!
I noticed that he really began to be interested in it at over 6 - when out and about he would want to read any signs he saw in the street etc.

I think there is a lot to be said for giving young children time to develop the skills needed for formal learning before pushing reading. Being able to concentrate, listen, communicate and follow instructions provides a strong foundation for later reading. Children also develop at different rates, so starting later does not automatically mean falling behind. The important thing is what happens once formal teaching begins and whether children receive the support they need. Comparing one child with friends who learned earlier also risks making normal differences in development seem like a problem.

when they come from a home where there are books in the home, they are read to and they see their parents reading. and we are back to this problem of culture of decline in some sections of society that sees homes where children only see their parents reading their phones, of parents who are poor readers themselves or don’t see reading to their children as a key component of child rearing, and of homes where there are no actual books. The headteacher at the school I volunteer at told me that this deterioration in some children’s exposure to the written word outside the school setting is one of the main things that keeps him awake at night!

Lovetopaint037 but when there is lots of cuddles and reading at home, children teach themselves to read. That is how I learned to read, well before reaching school age, and the same with DH, DC and DGC, in fact most children will be well on the way to reading, if not reading, by 5 and certainly well before 7 when they come from a home where there are books in the home, they are read to and they see their parents reading.

I taught for 50 years and have enabled many children from 4 to teenage to use books for enjoyment and information. Lately UK schools put a lot of (over) emphasis on phonics which are simply one part of learning to read, not the be all and end all.
After retiring I volunteered with Beanstalk. This organisation puts adults ( no teaching experience necessary) together with children in need of support with reading and a carefully selected range of books. This one to one attention has most encouraging results within a month or two. It is about sharing and enjoying books and it works.

Since the emphasise is on phonics in so many schools, which is just one of several strategies that can be used, then starting school at seven is desirable. That leaves time to enjoy stories, sing songs, enjoy rhymes and look at picture books.
Never underestimate story time cuddled up with parents or other members of the family. That is the time that love of books is more likely to be established without unnecessary pressure of formal learning. The latter can easily reduce enthusiasm for engaging with a book as it is so easy to teach a child that it is too difficult. At seven all the good experiences of stories of all kinds, songs, rhymes, play acting and maturity are so more easily able to extend to formal teaching with success rather than to learn that reading is difficult and best avoided. That way a love of books is more likely to be established which lasts a life time.

Here they have a year, sometimes two, of kinder so school starts by the age of 6, depending on their birthdays. They are not taught to read at kinder, just social skills, a little basic counting perhaps and listening to reading, structured days etc. There is a move to start 3 year old kinder but it is still aged 4. Oh, and it’s not free !

Goldieoldie15

I am Polish born and brought up. Did not start school until 7 and a half. I have 2 undergraduate degrees and 2 post grad. I’ve had a very successful career and am trilingual. It’s barbaric to be sending 4 year olds to school and expect them to sit at their desks 9 - 3. Why? And to what purpose, other than getting them out from under your feet. Guess that was the original purpose. Can’t honestly think of any other.

You obviously have no idea of life in a reception class in the UK. Your comments about “getting them out from under your feet” are rude and uninformed, hopefully not due to your late start in school.
You are to be congratulated on your degrees, but there is no way of proving that your late start in schooling has any relationship to those.
My DB has degrees and a doctorate and is also trilingual. He started at almost 5. He might just as well argue that that early start is responsible for his achievements, though I doubt if he would be that silly.

I don't think the decision of when children start school was the decision of parents so nothing to do with "getting them out from under your feet".
If children are held back for a year they then miss out on Reception class which involves a significant amount play, albeit structured play. They are not sitting all day at desks in rows listening to the teacher.

I am Polish born and brought up. Did not start school until 7 and a half. I have 2 undergraduate degrees and 2 post grad. I’ve had a very successful career and am trilingual. It’s barbaric to be sending 4 year olds to school and expect them to sit at their desks 9 - 3. Why? And to what purpose, other than getting them out from under your feet. Guess that was the original purpose. Can’t honestly think of any other.

Our grandson hates books ( he's four). He used to love them when he was little but just stopped enjoying. His speech is amazing , it's like talking to an adult and school agree. He loves acting out stories when I use props. Eg-we make 3 little houses out of magnetic shapes and re-enact the 3 little pigs story. Some kids I guess are just late starters. I was always a follower of early reading but have maybe changed my opinion

My daughter runs a school in Cornwall, age 3 to 8. She first concentrates on their social skills and motor skills. They can operate pencils, cutlery etc and they build things and do much of their learning outdoors. There are stories and books and somehow they learn to read but not necessarily as young as 4. She goes more the Montessori/Froebel ways and the children can handle a lot of physical stuff prior to reading.

I myself learned to read at 5, but my teaching has all been done in Denmark, where children are 6 or 7 when they start school.

The advantages of the later start are that most of the children in the class are ready and eager to learn and most do quite quickly learn to read, spell and do sums.

Kindergartens are not compulsory here, but run much along the lines you describe in Poland. So children come to school with social skills and good motorik - both much needed at school.

Once the children are reading, your son can encourage them to do so, and there is no reason why he should not read aloud to them.

Are they being brought up bilingual? If not, the parents should really consider doing so. It is far easier to learn two or three languages before the age of 12 than have to acquire them later.

"I think that this is quite ironic in view of the fact that, once their maternity leave is over, mothers put their children into nurseries, some not even a year old... And the nurseries are supposed to provide meaningful developmental experiences for the children in their care. Entering a school at 5 is hardly a completely new experience for many children."

Other gender parents are also available. Can we please stop blaming mothers for everything to do with children?

they could be taught to read from an early age by their parents

I could read quite fluently at three, taught by my older sister. I’m no genius, I just loved letters and words and was desperate to learn, it’s just a shame that all children are different and can’t learn at their own pace which obviously would be impossible.

I was a teacher of young children for many years and then swapped to university to teach trainee teachers early reading skills.
I would say well done Poland! Most children in England are reading when they are clearly not ready, from a range of repetitive books. In France they begin school much later and write beautifully and are ahead of England in many ways. Children should be playing creatively and taking part in pre- reading and writing skills.
And if your relative is unhappy what's to stop him teaching the child to read? Or reading lots of stories. What an advantage the child has with being bi-lingual and stretching the synapses of the brain.

Semi retired nursery teacher here. Social skills and speech more important than reading. However if the polish way is different they will of tracked this. I feel in nursery we’ve definitely moved backwards with speech and my opinion toileting. I can’t compare our teaching methods but the joy of reading needs to reinforced and introduced as a joy rather than a chore. I’m sure your grandchildren will be fine and their learning will be monitored as to their strengths.

CocoPops the Canadian French Immersion system is wonderful. When we were stationed on a large NATO base in the Netherlands, we arrived not long after DD had started junior school in this country. She attended the international school with other British children, but the school was run by the Americans whose children did not start school until the age of 7. She was not stretched at all, so, along with a number of other children she was invited to join the Canadians in their French Immersion system. It was amazing. They spoke little or no English in class and at the end of three years she could speak and write French like a native. We came home to England and she went to the local junior school where they hadn’t begun to learn languages. I was so worried that she would lose the ability to converse that the school provided her every day with a teacher who would speak to her in French for an hour or so until we could find a private tutor to fill that gap. It reinforced what I had always thought - that we do not start teaching languages early enough in this country. From 7 to 11 children will soak it up like a sponge. Thereafter, especially with boys, all sorts of imponderables kick in and given the choice, they drop languages so it quite often goes down the drain.

My Canadian grandchildren started French Immersion school aged 5 -6 and speak fluent French. It's a multi-cultural society where I live and not unusual to meet children who speak 3 or more languages. The early school years are less formal than the UK with lots of school trips and an emphasis on social skills and community which I particularly like.

I often have children say to me “why do we have to read?” The only thing I can tell them is that all of life, the past, the future is built on our ability to read the written word, and, in our turn, to make a contribution, however small, to society and to history, which depends on the written word. Some of the outlooks for their own futures - at such a tender age - are very narrow, as were ours I suppose at the same age.

My father left school at 14. He could read, spell, had basic arithmetic and beautiful handwriting. He read with me and to me as a young child, took me to the library, shared his reading tastes, and criticised mine as a teenager. He wrote wonderful letters to me when I left home. Some of his contemporaries never learned to read. Reading never got him a better job, or furthered his education, but it broadened his mind and let him escape from his narrow life.

Children have such advantages these days. All you want is to see them seize them with both hands.

Sorry - probably not relevant but if he had not fired a spark in me, I would not have been able to pass that spark on to my children, and each generation hopefully does better than the last, because of that spark.

Show your son these posts . He mustn't worry- no big deal in the grand scheme of things.

I learned to read when I was five and in Kindergarten - because my father taught me, using some old readers that we had. Apparently, I came home from Kindergarten totally disgusted because they wouldn't guarantee that we would learn to read - this had been a dream of mine for awhile. While I recall Dad teaching me, I don't recall the catalyst for it.

Years later, I learned that when DAD went to school for the first time (no Kindergarten in those days - just a one-week orientation in the spring before they started Grade 1 in the fall), HE came home from school and announced to Grandma that school wasn't much good because they hadn't learned to read yet!!!