Just keep on backing yourself into that corner NCwN. With every insult you post, your true colours shine through.
What's going on , on the street outside your home right now?
Gransnet forums
Estrangement
The Brainwashing Behind Going No Contact
(1001 Posts)I hope it's OK to post this here. I'm sure Gransnet will move it if it's not but in view of all those estranged, cut off parents unable to understand why their adult children treat them like they do, this very well written post sums it up perfectly.
It was sent to me this morning. Obviously some AC have no choice but to keep their distance from abusive parents, we understand this. But this NC approach being liberally recommended is a highly destructive trend ruining many lives.
' I am in the position that my estranged daughter is treating me like I'm toxic when I feel it's the other way around. We've been studying this for awhile now. Why are there so many adult children cutting off their families. These are things that we came up with. Something interesting: we've all noticed how our EC all do the same mean stuff and say the same mean things. It's like they're reading a script or like they all joined the same cult.
I have news for you. They are all reading a script. They did join the same cult.
What they are doing is called "Going No Contact". It's literally a scripted plan that they follow. It starts when they judge us as not just humans with whom they disagree, but "evil" because we don't see things their way. They complain online, and meet other complaining children who honestly believe, thanks to the self-esteem movement, that any time they were uncomfortable for a moment equals abuse. If their parents disagreed with them or made them do something that they didn't like or whacked their fresh asses when they talked back or refused to follow rules, they add this to their pile of justification. Lacking coping skills, they believe that anytime they are not happy, they have been wronged, and the person who dared to 'make' them feel bad is a Narcissist.
A Narcissist to them is what 'possessed' meant to our parents. The Narcissist is pure evil and a force to be feared and hated. They all bolster one another's justification of their interpretation of who we are. They swap war stories that are positively ridiculous, such as stories of the "evil narcissistic mother in law who wore a different dress than agreed upon to the wedding" or the "evil, narcissistic mother who took away all of their toys until their chores were done". I've seen both of those in these groups.
After justifying to themselves that they are RIGHT and their parents are EVIL NARCISSISTS, they begin plans to "Go No Contact". It is a systematic plan to discard the parents/grandparent, and turn the kids against grandparents. There are actual steps to this plan. They vary from group to group, but they are essentially all similar.
The groups talk a lot about setting boundaries, but what they call setting boundaries is just rude dictating, and setting their targets up to fail. Stuff like "I told my mother that she can come over between 12 and 1 on Sundays only. If she is one minute early or stays one minute late, that will be the end of her visits." Part of the plan is to NOT tell mother what she did wrong, just to enact the "consequence". They know that the targeted parent will try to rectify the situation. They react in a way that is illogical: refusing to answer questions, insisting that any apology is a manipulative lie and therefore is insincere, ordering parent out of their house, putting parents in that time out thing where they tell us not to contact them for a certain length of time, and then they will "review our request".
They post joyful stories of their parents reaction to losing grandkids or their parents pleas for an explanation. They cheer each other on and congratulate one another for cutting family off. Refusing to give any explanation is part of the plan. They call it Taking Your Power Back.
They claim that it's to protect themselves from the evil narcissists who are terrorizing them, but in reality, it's not about protection or healing. It's about power, control, and just being shitty. They don't know the difference between assertive and aggressive, and they think being arbitrary is the same as having boundaries.
Google "Going No Contact". You will find pages and pages of groups and instructions that will not surprisingly match exactly what our kids are doing.
I think this information can be very helpful. We can learn what they want us to do, so we can do the opposite.
I strongly urge every single person here to read up on "Going No Contact". It's like a map to navigate this territory. It even gets amusing sometimes, reading the steps and thinking "You're such a lemming". Who the hell would follow this crap.
They would, that's who'
@annsixty - Stirring and provoking are things narcs do. Now go stir your pot! ?
NCwN I think you have misunderstood me. I was trying to say that, while I do accept that some people cut off parents because of their behaviour, I also believe that some parents, siblings and friends are cut off because of controlling and abusive partners.
Telling all cut off grandparents here that it is because of their behaviour just ignores the facts that some people DO get cut off because of other peoples need to control and not because of anything they have done. I can think of a few regular posters whose stories suggest this scenario
You condemned yourself out of your own 'mouth' NCwN. The accusations you made against IrishRose have only been exhibited on this thread by you of late.
As you said, nice try but that's a typical narc comment.
And many have also cut off siblings and their entire family due to the threats made by their narcissistic partners if they don't.
@Madgram77 - No, I'm not.
@Smiless2012 - Nice try.....but that's a typical narc comment. It's called "Flipping it back onto you." ?
@Meercat - You've written a sound comment--and I agree 100% with you. What you've described IS narcissistic abuse--and ACONs understand that very well, because so many of them have been in this type of relationship and were too afraid to get out due to lack of finances, young children, threats from the narcissist if they dared to leave, etc. (I think of Nicole Simpson in this case).
But you're right--those who have gone NC with someone have usually done so because of parental abuse or spousal abuse. Many have also cut off their siblings due to a narcissistic parent triangulating them.
"The viciousness, anger and bile you are referring to are the projections of the narcissists onto their targets". Exactly NCwithNarcissists and as you are the only poster targeting other posters with your expressions of viciousness, anger and bile are we to conclude, by your own definition that you are the narcissist here?
NCwithNarcissists are you seriously suggesting that all CO parents must have been CO because they are Narcissists?
@Irish76 - Well, aren't you the pot calling the kettle black. The viciousness, anger, and bile you're referring to are the "projections" of the narcissists onto their targets. If you'd care to learn more about the narcissist's MO, just go on YT or Google "How Narcissists Operate," and you'll find thousands of videos and articles written on the subject. But of course you wouldn't have the courage or backbone to do that because it would only serve to convict you.
What do you think you're doing here on this forum? You're certainly not discussing how happy you are and how much you love your children. You're angry and bitter because somebody walked out on you and you've come here to lick your wounds and have other like-minded people validate you, since they're in the same boat as you.
Think of us as the 'canary in the coal mine' warning others of narcissistic abuse so that they won't have to endure the abuse so many of us have had to (like dave) before we finally go NC.
They're being given a map to freedom--freedom from abuse and control. So deal with it. ?
I think s/he does believe what s/he's posting; that's what makes it so disturbing annsixty.
I've seen posts here on GN from posters who've ventured onto MN and seen how posters having problems with P's and p.i.l. are urged to cut them out.
We have a thread on GN here at the moment where the OP has said, despite being in her mid 30's, that she no longer feels welcome on MN because she refuses to CO her parents.
There's always at least one thread here on GN for EP's and GP's and yes, at times emotions run high but I've never seen anything as bad as some of the recent posts on this thread.
You may right of course "She must be laughing her socks off at the furore she is trying to provoke" but if she is deriving pleasure from the unpleasant posts she's making, she has IMO some serious issues.
What a very twisted person NC must be because all she is doing is stirring, she can't believe what she is posting.
She must be laughing her socks off at the furore she is trying to provoke.
I am sure that those posting here about the reasons why people cut off narcissistic parents must also be aware that there are abusive relationships where the abusive partner controls all aspects of the relationship and often starts by isolating their partner from all friends and family. Sometimes these relationships end in tragedy and sometimes they only end when the abused partner manages to break free.
What I am trying to say here is that not every instance of family members being cut out happens because of the behaviour of the person who has been cut out. It happens because the abusive partner wants to be in total control.
Those posting that they understand why some of the regular posters here have been cut off really do not know what kind of situation applies.
@Smiless2012 - The woman I spoke of is my classmate from elementary school, so I know her story well- although I don't keep in touch with her because all she ever does is complain about her 2 boys (the scapegoats). Her daughter is the GC (I'm sure you can relate to all of this--all narcs do this).
However, I do keep in touch with her daughter and SIL and give them the emotional support they need from the MIL from hell.
Btw, if you Googled "The Scapegoat from Hell," you probably won't find anything. But if you Googled "The MIL from Hell," you'd find dozens of articles.
Once again, please give your AC my condolences--there's a reason they're keeping their distance.
However awful one's own experiences it is entirely inappropriate to therefore assume that others situations have been caused for the same reasons as your own! I am sure we can all give examples to illustrate the "truth" of our own view ...but frankly it is irrelevant as someone else will have an example that illustrates their differing "truth" ...which clearly evidences that each story/circumstance s different and no assumptions can be mad! And rudeness NEVER makes a point!!
I know you're trying to make a point NCwithNarcissists I'm just not sure what it is...
You sound really bitter.
I'm not sure if my MIL is a Narc but she's definitely a few sandwiches short of a picnic..that's me putting it nicley.
My DH isn't in contact with his DM and is nowhere near as, opinionated? As you. He's improved alot, helped himself and is private about it.
She on the other hand likes ranting, giving opinions on situations she has NO idea about, making snide remarks and being rather passive aggressive.. if anything you sound alot like her.
You have to wonder IrishRose if the people they have estranged are the problem; perhaps it's them.
With the exception of Dave and his very balanced post, I find it strange that most other posts from those who have cut out parents, are filled with unbelievable viciousness, anger and bile. Surely removing the cause of their misery ought to have brought them peace, and the ability to happily move on. It certainly doesn’t seem to have. In fact, by creating groups and writing incessantly on social media, constantly regurgitating their misery, they are hanging on to the very feelings they claim to have overcome.
Yes, she is to be pitied NCwithNarcissists. Has a history of being unable to sustain long term relationships. She's cut out her own mother several times now. The poor woman probably doesn't know if she's coming or going. The children must get confused too. One day they have a GM in their lives and the next they don't.
Interesting that the man you spoke of "convinced his wife to move far away from her (mother)" and yet you describe the mother as manipulative.
You might find that if you were a lot less judge mental and not so quick to make assumptions, for eg that I am an overbearing m.i.l., you'd be able to have a more balanced and mature over view of estrangement issues.
@Smiless2012 - Oh, your poor DIL. I knew a woman whose daughter married a fine young man and she was quite upset about this man "stealing" her daughter away from her (her words).
Fortunately, this man saw right through his manipulative MIL and convinced his wife to move far away from her.
She agreed, and they're now planning to start a family far away from this overbearing woman.
I sure hope dave finds the same peace after he moves on.
Well NCwithNarcissists obviously GNHQ disagree and found your post to me abusive or they wouldn't have deleted it.
Yes I'll pass your condolences on to my ES regarding the woman he married. No need to do so with our other son as we have a wonderful relationship with him.
A thoughtful and insightful post dave
. Maybe NCwithNarcissists could take a leaf out of your book and learn the appropriate format for posting.
Oh, excuse me....that's the 'Jig' is up.
I have gone low to no Contact and found that it was a "last resort" option. While I agree that the Internet influences children to "loosely" break contact upon the slightest disagreements with parents, unfortunately for many of us it is a decision taken after years and years of what we feel is abuse. For me, it doesn't matter if my parents are or are not Narcissists. It's a label. My "meter" was always "Can I Be Myself around my parents?" It was getting to a point where even very basic statements from me such as "It's a nice day today," or " (My son) enjoyed his soccer match," were being met by my parents with undue sarcasm and condescension. Often when questions were addressed to me, my father would jump in and give a "Smart" answer without letting me answer the question, as if what I say or feel didn't matter. This happens to all of us to an extent, but in my case it was becoming a regularity, and I came to the conclusion that I simply could not be myself around either of my parents. Yes parents have the Right to scold us, to criticize us, to show us "Tough Love" and Right from Wrong, but when it gets to the point that we are Not Even Allowed to Be Human around our parents or be Ourselves around our parents, it's time to Move On.
@smileless2012 - You were not the least bit 'abused' on my thread. But hopefully, you now understand that you're not in control of our lives--we are. The gig is up, like Ollie Matthews said. And please give your children my condolences. ?
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