The Brainwashing Behind Going No Contact

Star lady, I did get a long list of grievances from my daughter, amidst a strict set of rules on how I should/should not, respond., I readily hold my hand up to being responsible for some of the things, there were other things that were completely different from how I remember and things that I really have no idea where they have come from. She has cut off the whole family. I have deeply apologised for the hurt she feels I have caused her. To me, the important bit is “the hurt she feels I have caused her”. I can only try explain my thoughts. Each person going through estrangement is different and all situations are unique. I don’t think that dissecting all her thoughts and perceived wrongs will help either of us move on. And as I said, she did have some truths too. I feel that picking things apart doesn’t do much because she is trying to tell me how she feels/felt and I think that is what’s important to us. We could argue all the points she made till the cows come home but it still won’t change her perception of things that happened. I want my daughter back and I am prepared to do everything I can to achieve this.! I do find it hard trying to explain what I’m trying to say, my daughter and I have just started to communicate again. I don’t think what she needs to hear right now is how I perceived certain events or the actual (proveable) truth of situations that she believes the opposite of. What she needs to hear is that I still love her, always will and am absolutely willing to work as hard as I have to do that we can get through this. Reading the other ladies stories, I realise that there are so many factors that can affect how our situation may, or may not, work out. Much of what she has said may sound trivial but to her, it’s anything but. If I said that to het, she might just think I’m not taking on board how she feels and that I’m not respecting her thoughts and feelings. Nobody is truly right or wrong and fighting with her about it will just put us back to where we were. I know it’s going to take s long time and that I may never rekindle a relationship with her. However, if we can’t reconcile I don’t want it to be because of pride or self righteousness on my part. And even when I know for sure I am in the right, it doesn’t matter at this point in time and I can suck it up. My daughter means more to me than being right. Again, time will tell. I don’t know what will happen down the line and I don’t know how I will feel as we get there. This is one of the most difficult and fraught situations I’ve bedn in and I thank each and every poster for sharing. You are amazing ladies and when I’ve been feeling very lost you have helped do much. There are s couple of ladies that have given me excellent advice (you know who you are)! I just wish everyone could get through their griefs and heartaches. Life never seemed to be like this on the Walton’s, that’s for sure ? Much love yo you all x

Welcome to this sad but extremely supportive thread Sally and thank you for trusting us with your story and your pain.

We have yet to find the answer to that question that eludes all EP's and EGP's; why?

"I find this experience gut wrenchingly painful", we know and we understand.

We were cut off from our daughters life when she had a child - her first. I always thought we had a reasonable relationship, so when this all blew up it was a gut wrenchingly painful thing to go through. Nothing has changed three and a half years later - I watch my grandson grow up from a distance with scarce photos my son is able to send, looking online at his nursery, reading descriptions of how a child his age is. We are apparently ‘toxic’ and unworthy of any contact. I hope one day the little boy will seek us out, but in the meantime there is not a day that goes by that I find this experience gutwrenchingly painful and occasionally, makes me feel suicidal.

Dear lucklegs I am so sorry even tho we have spoken I had no idea the ill treatment had gone on so long by your daughter ?
As the others say you didn't deserve that and surprise you carriednon after her rude comments, my ed could be rude too.

As said before I think rejection by someone we gave birth to makes us so vulnerable.
I know it's not same issue but today spoke to xxx godmother and it starred off stilted but polite I asked after her and husband etc, then mentioned text I sent 8 days ago and would they be coming for evening, No they wouldn't and she felt Time to end the friendship.

I have been so upset but I will get over it, she had t been close for long while it's just length of time 46 years a see been through lot together

That's life eh! However she refused to enlarge on why and pretty well hung up on me.

We still went out for lunch but I feel very low and sad guess it will pass!

It's strange how the grandparents who haven't been cut out and their feelings have been mentioned a lot recently. It flagged up just how I've been looking at things.

My granddaughter has been with my daughter-in-law and her family for the last month.....all through Christmas and New Year. My son was there for the important days, but had to return for work. He sent me all the pics and videos, and I've been studying - stupid I know! - the grandmother and her interaction with our granddaughter. Wondering how in Gods name she can so obviously ignore the fact that her daughter is causing such pain to another woman. And she does, the entire family don't even acknowledge my existence. There is a slight language barrier, but my son understands enough to know what's said.....at least when he's there. Who knows what's said when he's not. I know, without doubt, that I would never want another person to go through this pain, without at least asking why.

What I also find interesting is that when reading Mumsnet, it's always a one size fits all, a mother's place is in the wrong! Here, we all agree that there are as many difficult mothers-in-law as there are daughters and sons-in-law.

Lucky I'm sorry but I actually felt quite angry reading how your daughter has treated you. You have done the only thing you can, but the pain stays the same...Rosy.x.

It's clear from your posts flump that your m.i.l.'s idea of a close relationship with her son, your husband was an unhealthy one.

I was close to our ES. He'd 'phone or text at least once a day, call round unannounced and check the fridge for bacon and make sure there was some bread so 'mum, can you make me a snack'.

He told me his problems and asked for my advice. I was a big part of his life for 27 years, as big a part as he wanted me to be when he reached adulthood. That's what I mean about the closeness of our relationship and am sure that's what other EP's mean too.

Norah maybe you never gave much thought to how your DD's in laws have felt being CO of their sons and GC's lives and that's not a criticism.

It's only because we've been CO that we know how terribly painful it is. Those who have no personal experience but read about the consequences on forums such as this one, can at least have some insight into the trauma being CO brings.

I can't honestly say how much thought I'd have given to our ES's p's.i.l. if they'd been the ones CO instead of us. I'm quite certain I'd have been worried about the same thing happening to us. I think it would have troubled me but then again I was very friendly with ES's m.i.l. long before he ever met her D.

That said, when things were very bad between Ed.i.l. and her parents before they married, ES told me that if they ever had children he wouldn't let her parents see them. I told him he was wrong and had no right to to do so. They would be GP's to any children and although it could be reasonable not to want children left alone with them, to deny all contact would be cruel. Ironic isn't it.

Luckylegswith such a lofty perception of herself, it's a pity your ED seems to have forgotten where she came from and who worked so hard to give her such a good start in life: you.

Sorry, the comment addressed to Maddy should have been addressed to Flump!

Luckylegs, I have to laugh. I didn't even mention her smashing dishes as she was in such a temper about it. Goodness knows what was wrong with her.

LL, I agree, too, it's your dd who "failed," not you.

"... she said once, who would value what you have to say, better to be quiet. "

Easy to say, I know, but I think I would have pulled away after that. If someone thinks so little of what I have to offer, then let them stay away from me, even my own dd. You lasted longer than I think I would have. I know you love her, but you are better off without that kind of negative energy in your life.

Maddy, how cruel and out-of-line MIL was! She's very lucky she was dealing with you and dh. If she said that to one of the mners, today, she probably wouldn't be allowed to see the new baby for a long time!

Yoga, I know it's "not a 10yr wait for Norah." But she seemed to say she would be ok with it if it were, and didn't seem to see why other gps didn't feel the same. My point was that I believe I would find it very difficult and she can't expect everyone to have the same easygoing attitude about it that she does.

Thanks Yogagirl and Flump for kind words. Ho can two children raised the same way,moved as much as each other,mourn out do differently?
Flump, your mil was completely out of order, you didn't ask for advice and what a cruel reaction to the news that a new grandchild was expected. you should have been congratulated. My own mother never interfered in my life but was 100 per cent supportive. I was young having my first child, but she was so excited for us, she knitted baby clothes and bought us a new Silver Cross Pram even though she had little money. I can understand how demoralising mil comments must have been, she sounds a very controlling overbearing person. With you your husband can be the man he is,not the one his mother thinks he should be.

luckylegs What a terrible story, you tried everything to have a relationship with your daughter but she made it clear she didn't want one with you. I agree with yoga you did not fail, your daughter failed you. How your daughter (or any other) can just walk away and feel absolutely not one jot of remorse or responsibility towards their parents I simply do not know. And even after my own daughter threatened me/us with the same, and in the end she could not do it, thank God. I went to hell and back during those months, I can't begin to know how l would feel if the separation went on for years.
Do not berate yourself, you were a loving mother, your daughter (sadly) was not a loving daughter. She should be the one berating herself for her unacceptable behaviour towards you.

One thing that jumps out at me is many of the co GPs seem to say they had a particularly close relationship. I think my MIL might have said the same. Her husband died shortly after my husband was born so it was always just the two of them. I think some of the problems between them were because when he became an adult she wanted that to continue but he, understandably, wanted to make his own decisions about career, relationships, how he spent his money etc.

I suppose you would say it was boundaries, was it reasonable that when we told her about our last baby she was furious, we didn't "need" another baby, it wasn't fair to the others etc. I honestly don't think it was her place to get involved in that part of our life but she thought it was. I might have my own opinion about how many and when it would be ideal for my children to have children but I think the only response when they give you the news is congratulations. Similarly I would never comment about how they run their homes, if DD or DDsIL return to work or become SAHM. Not my circus, not my monkey.

Thanks for answering Norah

Readymeals never got the meeting, never got to speak to any of them, just the brick-wall of silence

Starlady it's not a 10yr wait for Norah, she's not the one CO, it's a 10yr wait for her 4D's m.i.ls & f.i.ls.
Your welcome re compliment Starlady

Luckylegs you did not fail, your D failed you, you come across as a lovely lady and I'm sure you were a lovely mum too. Read the passage I shared on the previous page, the person in question, along with other negative behaviour, estranged himself from his family, and as with them, it was not of their doing, but his.
Be kind to yourself LL

I was asked yesterday, how long I had been nc with my daughter. It has been at least 10 years when she made it difficult to have a relationship, breaking arrangements minutes before, ignoring me when we did get together or if not that critisising how I looked or spoke or how I was over friendly, she said once, who would value what you have to say, better to be quiet. She damaged my confidence so much, visits dwindled down to 2 or 3 times a year, any attempt at asking how we could sort it was met by hysterical outbursts or once being physically thrown out of her house, in the end I just got worn out with it all, I didn't make contact and neither did she, then after about 6/7 months I would get an invitation to meet up for coffee, which I did and she sat there looking at her watch, any attempt at talking to her rebuffed, meeting lasting half an hour maximum. I used to come home and cry. In the end I decided I couldn't do it, I made a last attempt at sorting it out and was told I got on her nerves she preferred her friends. I saw her an hour the Christmas before last, it was dreadful,mshectotally ignored me.. So although I haven't been absolutely no contact, the little I did have was worse than none. At least now I know there is no chance of us reuniting, her behaviour has been cruel, she manages month long holidays and has a good life, she wanted what she saw as the encumbrance of me, now my husband had died, out of the way and she has it. I might had I never added for anything, always there for her and helped her out, she went up in the world and in her eyes I went down.
I didn't tell friends or family for years, then just a couple of years ago when I made the decision I couldn't do it any more I did. We were once so close, like Celebrgran, but I know I can never go back to that. It is too late. It will always be a sadness to me, I failed at the most important relationship I could have, but I did try. I know I did everything to fix it, but it never could be mended.

I agree starlady the grandparents it cut off may well wonder if it would be them next.

I can't say I could sit by and say nothing if I was in that position I would be so upset for them there is no way I could condone such cruelty.

However we have been on receiving end of it for 9 long years and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enenmy,

Thanks for the compliment on my other post, Yoga! I can't pretend to know what being an egp is like, but I know from what I read and hear that "be the bigger person" arguments, while well-intentioned, I'm certain, are just too simple for what are often complex situations.

Ugh! Such a long sentence! Sorry!

10 years without seeing my gc would seem like "forever!" I am sure I would find ways to fill my days with other interests. I would keep a memory box, etc. and look forward - cautiously - to the day that my gc might show up at my door or contact me on fb or whatever. But it still would be hard to take, particularly in the early days, surely, just as posters here have said. And I would be aware that the hoped-for day might NOT come or that it might not lead to very much, just a gc satisfying their curiosity, maybe, and then, back to business as usual. So maybe you and I are different, Norah, but 10 years would be no easy wait for me.

That said, if my dd and sil were co from his mom, I wouldn't try to mix in too much. I would be afraid of getting co , myself, and what good would that do? She's a nice lady, and I would think of her, surely. But I know how my dd and sil are when their minds are made up about something. Trying to intervene on her part would be an exercise in futility. Fortunately, it's not an issue though (not at the moment, anyhow, but one never knows).

Yogagirl, I'll give your question a go. I realize you won't like the answer and I'm setting myself. One sil was CO before he met my dd. Other sils over time have CO. My dds don't discuss their dh parent with me and I do not pry. I learned, twice, because I ask about other mum's plans to holidays.

Until I read what is said at GN I never thought to the other gps. Still I do not dwell on them. None live at all near to us. We met at weddings or not at all.

What mils think may be to what you mums on GN think. Few years they would meet gc. Out of my life 10 years is not much. The memory boxes for some years later seem a good idea to me.

123flump that's interesting ref your husband because my daughter never mentioned anything to me I had done wrong I got all these cards and notes saying how proud she was of me, so makes it all the. MOre bizarre to suddenly hear I abused her? And she had awful childhood.
I remember cooking her special dinners becsud she was v fusssy and thin, trailing her all over town to find correct fitting shoes, having birthday parties for her friends, holidays, sitting up all night when she was ill, all things mums do, always there to collect her from school, supported her in sports district sports each year my dh worked long hurts it was always me and her grandad r,I,p.
Maybe I tried too hard as my sister says who know.
We supported her emotionally and financially through A levels 4 year degree course the. Further tear pre reg giving her. Car, help with house deposit, How can she see all this as abuse, and ruining her childhood?

Somehow all that is forgotten so yes I suppose starlady it's easy to feel bitter but I try not to,

Her brother sees it totally differently and says I was a lovely mum if not I think I would go mad.
I foolishly gave up my career so they wouldn't. Be latch key kids, just did rubbish part time work to fit in with them.

Boy did it hurt to hear those lies,

First violetfloss sorry was awful to find having baby was trigger factor?

Maddyone you are so right the partner could help rather than insitage or encourage the cutoff.

Then it gets to stage our daughter wanting herndad to see kids and s i law refusing saying no way! She just shrugged her shoulders at her dad as if to say I tried,

Sadly that was last time he spoke to her next visit she drew curtains and locked door as you ladies know well.

Typos lucklylegs ??what do you mean?

Wow I am Tired today shopping with dear friend yesterday after delicious lunch out lifted my spirits but knees back bit iffy today I did acquacsie and 12 lengths thurs so may overdone it!

Smilless my dear son said xxx wanted me to jump through hoops seek help for menopause, (went on hrt patches)but nothing was good enough for some reason she wanted cut us all off,
As younsaid smilless it would been good if she could have told me and given me chance to alter or Change anything maybe see them less? Anything rather than cruelty of complete cut off, lies and insults that I have to live with when I tried so damn hard to be good mum,

Agree with everything you said Flump. Mirror image situation.

Can't speak for all eac but I know it wasn't an apology my husband wanted, it was an acknowledgement of things that had been done that his mother denied or minimised. Things she would say were silly or exaggerated and probably one by one they aren't that big a deal but taken all together they mounted up into a big deal.

I think it's very different, but also similar in so many ways, to be CO as a parent, than as a sibling. I have suffered CO as a sister, and as near as damn it, as a parent, and in both cases either mental health, or jealousy was at the root of it. I Or as you say smileless they are living with someone with these problems. The partner has a big part to play, it seems to me that they either encourage it, or at best, do nothing to prevent it. And they could! They could speak in a rational way to their partner, and tell them how unreasonable the behaviour is, but in my experience, that doesn't happen, they go along with it for an easy life.
As celeb said, it's not normal to CO family, therefore at the root, there is something wrong, and so we come full circle to mental health, or extreme jealousy/resentment.

Yogagirlthat would make our girls laugh, someone asking if they're angels; I'll tell them next time I see them.

We went out with them last night and it was such a laugh. They really are a tonic and we're so lucky to have them as neighbours and friends.

Mr. S. has apologised for a couple of things he's said and done since we were CO but it's not made a jot of difference. ES may tell his brother he wants an apology but clearly that's just an excuse.

If there are things he believes were said and done by us that necessitated cutting us out for which we should apologise, then why didn't he say so at the time and give us the opportunity to do something about it?

Yes Luckylegs I agree it is indeed a terrible dilemma. I would never let anyone succeed in getting what they want by offering me such an ultimatum but that said, why not say 'I'm sorry mum and dad, but for the sake of my family I can't have anything to do with you anymore'? Why lie? Why try and come between your brother and his parents? Why try and get him to cut them out too?

Typoswhat typos

Starladythat's what I mean about actions having consequences. No one wants to hurt inside and live with feelings of anger and bitterness, but that's what happens when your AC cuts you out of their lives.

In some cases maddyone the one doing the cutting out is living with some one with mental health problems or someone who is jealous, resentful and spiteful. The latter clearly demonstrated by our Ed.i.l. by the way she treats her own parents.

Morning ladies, you are such a sweetie celeb, thank you for that compliment, but I think anyone who has suffered estrangement, or prolonged separation from beloved family members has much wisdom and insight on this subject. I have observed that my beloved sister is quite immature in many ways, despite her being older than me. I feel for her, her life situation is not great, but what she did as a younger woman when she cut off her entire family, was beyond painful. I grieved as if she was dead. And my poor mother! Words fail me! Now we have contact again, but her mental health still causes us difficulties with our relationship with her. But I never stopped loving her. I don't know if my experience as a previously cut off sister sheds any light on to the situation some of our ladies on here are facing, that of a CO child and a non CO child. For myself, after my sister made contact with the family again, I was extremely wary about being too familiar again, I'd been so hurt, beyond words hurt, I felt the need to protect myself, but I still loved her, and adored her children, and so gradually we re established our relationship. I still love her, and she's still a tricky character.