The Brainwashing Behind Going No Contact

Kas1950
Is it better not to know the reason why your daughter went no contact or like me to receive a torrent of abuse of what an awful person I am, and to receive a text saying that he does not want to be in my life or that of his siblings, that he is "done" with me. Which hurts more? Both !
And as for the siblings trying to patch it up, he doesn't want contact with his siblings....his older sister who adored him and the younger who grew up with and never had a cross word with.
My analysis of my situation is this.....his wife has never liked our family .....she wants him for herself, their kids and her parents. (She is an only child) . Can't sleep hence on Gransnet. Thanks all xx

Sorry to hear that Kas. Did she tell you she was going to do it, or did she just stop responding? November 2017 probably seems like an eternity but is still relatively recent, so there is every hope of a reconciliation if everything otherwise seemed fine. Do you think that there is something else going on in their lives which you are not aware of? My adult daughter 'ghosted' us for 6 months, but then got back in touch, although things are still 'sticky'.

@crazyH - as you can see I have insomnia too! Like you, I think it is mainly down to my daughter's 'other half', whom I regard as controlling. He wants her for himself and she has stopped contact with family and friends. They don't have any separate interests or go anywhere separately as they are 'a package'. Neither of them have had jobs since they left uni 3 years ago, although both are highly qualified. However, her partner is about to do a teacher training course (in order to get the free bursary), which I suspect he will find challenging.

All of this is incredibly hurtful, as others have said, like being rejected by a part of yourself. I have had counselling, had a lot of family support, even consulted various psychics, and the consistent advice is to be patient, don't force anything, but look after myself and get on with my life. This I am trying to do and, I have to say, it is getting easier. I am profoundly grateful for the close and loving relationships which I have with my husband and other children, as well as friends, interests, and being in the fortunate position of being able to have a good quality of lifestyle.

I think we just need to accept that our children need to grow and separate from us, as they grow into themselves. But I have to say that I can't help feeling that this should be possible without inflicting deliberate pain on someone who has always given unconditional love and support. But it's important to soldier on and seek to find peace and happiness. You just have to regard it as a problem/obstacle in life - we all have them - and seek to deal with it, as best you can, as we also 'grow' in the face of adversity.

Why is this always branded a new "trend"

Anyone who has done a bit of geology will have come up against these "dead ends":
- relatives you're told "we don't talk about" by older family members
- Family members who never ever wrote home after leaving town or the country so nobody even knows which boat they got on, just that its thought that they "might" have gone to America or Australia
- "new starts" including fake names/new names/young marriages to escape the family.

Its not a new internet/snowflake/millennium trend.

The only difference now is that people don't have to put themselves in danger (accepting first marriage proposal or getting on a migrant ship) to leave behind a family situation that makes them unhappy. Now they can do it whilst staying in their home town...which makes estrangement more "visible" because it doesn't give those that are estranged an easy excuse to use when people notice that they don't see the other part of the family. That's why there is now language for it. Because its no longer necessary to take drastic physical/geographical measures to get away. So people have to actually acknowledge the estrangement now.

This whole DNA genealogy thing is churning out stories of people finding close relatives that they knew nothing about

Some due to closed adoptions, but many more due to what if not estrangement?

When family members left out of necessity they were missed/written to if possible and talked about. People are finding cousins they never knew they had. Children of the child of their grandparent who was never mentioned. They previously were told they only had one aunt/uncle etc..

My ILs really don't seem like the type of family who would "do" estrangement. But looking through old black and white photos at my ILs house we found old pictures of a relative that "isnt talked about" but thought to still be alive/in the UK as far as they know

So its not new. But talking about it publicly is. So people I guess arw struggling to find the right words/language and I do agree that the current language being found is clumsy and melodramatic and not very insightful

The title of this thread notanan is 'The Brainwashing Behind Going No Contact'. It's about the pressure that some are put under, by a partner, to cut out their birth family.

It isn't about people escaping from danger "to leave a family situation that makes them unhappy", it's about a AC who once had a close and loving relationship with their parents until they met their partner.

It's about the slow process of control and manipulation that given time, can destroy the closest and most loving of AC parent relationships.

You post that "the current language being found is clumsy and melodramatic and not very insightful". A rather profound insight into the nature of your posts when it comes to estrangement and the reasons behind some of these tragic situations.

We are estranged and don't need an excuse, easy or otherwise to use when people are aware that we haven't seen our ES or only GC for almost 6 years. All we need to be is honest, which we are.

IMO the current language used for parents and GP's estranged is spot on. It is called a living bereavement, and that's precisely what it is.

If you are, as your user name suggests not a nan, maybe one day you will be and when you are fortunate enough to hold your GC in your arms, you might take a moment to imagine what it's like to have your GC taken away from you and never experience the reality of that loving embrace.

I don't know how good your imagination is, but even then you'll have no idea.

The language refered to by the OP was actually about the language used by ACs who go NC smileless. Things like Toxic and Narcissistic etc, used to describe those who they go NC from. This language is IMO used in the absence of more constructive language to describe THEIR OWN feelings about their family, rather than just brand them "evil" which IS clumsy and insightful use of language, but in the absence of a more useful way to describe the dynamic is sometimes all that people have to resort to when they dont feel safe and loved with people they are meant to feel safe and loved around.

Your personal dislike of me as a poster is clouding your comprehension skills. I was talking about the use of language that the OP and others cited as being used by those that go NC and the language used on forums and websites that support the ones who do the walking away.

Hmmm... I thought the "brainwashing" part was about the "script" that many young people seem to be following when they go nc. And I think that's one of the big differences about estrangement today - that and the fact that young people also have places online where they can talk about this and advise each other, places like Mumsnet where they can tell each other HOW to go nc ("Don't answer messages," Block them on fb," etc.). At one time, people who "weren't speaking" might still right each other notes or "talk to" each other through a 3rd party. But now they're often advised not to do that b/c it's "still contact." It's often more total and more methodical than in the past.

Then again, yes, I know of some people who families "don't speak about," as notanan says. But I also can see that not all estranged AC follow the current script to the letter. So maybe the differences between past & present forms of estrangement aren't as big as they sometimes seem.

But I don't agree, notanan, that finding people in one's family tree that one never knew about always means there was an estrangement. Sometimes yes. But sometimes people just lose track of each other over the years, especially if we're talking about distant cousins, or they simply forget the names of, maybe, a GGP or GGGP, etc. Today, with the help of the Internet, etc., we can easily keep a record of those names if we want. But, otherwise, forgetting them or not mentioning them to our kids & gc is often just a natural part of life, imo, not necessarily a sign of estrangement.

Oh, one other possible difference between estrangement then and now. I THINK that in the past estrangements happened most often if someone "disgraced" the family in some way, or there was a tug of war over a will, or there was a huge argument. Nowadays, those can be the cause, too. However, some people today don't wait for it to come to that, especially if their peers are telling them, "Just go nc!"

I think people on the outside expect a big argument or single issue that people fell out about in dramatic fashion. Whereas in reality a lot of NC is the result of death by 1000 paper cuts. No one big thing. Expecting a reason won't always help anyone to understand what's gone on. This is where the language comes into it, if someone asks "oh! Did you have a big fight or something?" the NC person wont necessarily want to list off all the small things that contributed to an unhappy dynamic so some I guess find it easier to just use dramatic language to sum it up because others just don't get how a relationship can break down slowely without it going up in dramatic flames.

It is a problem I think. People who havent been in a relationship that wears you down and exhausts you slowely over years don't understand and actually seek a "neat" explanation. Hence the language used about the other person rather than the NC party explaining their own feelings.

And sometimes the language is because the person is acutely angry and hurt.

But what good is condemning the language used if no alternative way is on offer?

Talking about something that previously wasn't talked about isn't going to come naturally is it?

Maybe that's why people seek out a "script"?

I don't have a personal dislike of you notanan I dislike the way you automatically assume that all who choose to estrange themselves from their immediate family, do so for their own protection, therefore putting the blame and responsibility on the parents.

You do this, even when the discussion is clearly coming from heart broken parents and GP's who have no idea why they've been cut out.

As for your comments about the language being used, in your post to which I was referring, you failed to make a direct connection between your remarks and the OP. Perhaps you should be more concerned about your comprehension skills than mine.

The availability of internet sites not only encouraging no contact but giving advice as to how to go about it does differentiate between what's happening today and what happened in the past Starlady. I also agree that there would have been reasons then that wouldn't necessarily be the case now as with the example you used of a family member being a disgrace.

Smileless you make so many assumptions and generalisations yourself that you see others doing it when they are not.

I also agree that there would have been reasons then that wouldn't necessarily be the case now as with the example you used of a family member being a disgrace.

I never said they were a disgrace. I said they weren't spoken to or about. No language at all was used. Which demonstrates how speaking about estrangement is new hence perhaps clumsiness when finding the right words

As for your comments about the language being used, in your post to which I was referring, you failed to make a direct connection between your remarks and the OP. Perhaps you should be more concerned about your comprehension skills than mine.

Oh make up your mind, first you tell me off by assuming I was off topic saying the thread is for replies to the OP, then when I point out that my post WAS a reply to the OP THAT'S WRONG TOO.

Now you're done demonstrating how anyone whose perspective and experience of estrangement differs at all from your own cant do/say anything right and is by default pounced upon by you, can we get back to the topic of the thread?

Ta

I haven't gone off the topic of this thread notanan. I didn't assume "you were off topic saying the thread is for replies to the OP"; I've never said that. You really should read posts more carefully.

I said that when you originally referred to the language being used when discussing this topic, you failed to make a direct connection between your remarks and the OP.

I have been posting on GN on the subject of estrangement for nearly 6 years and have never demonstrated "how anyone whose perspective and experience of estrangement differs at all from (my) own can't do/say anything right and is by default pounced upon by (me)".

I don't disagree with your perspective because it isn't in line with mine, I disagree with it because IMO it is wrong and I'm able to express my opinion without resorting to shouting ie using upper case.

Notanan, I think Smileless was referring to my post when she mentioned someone being co years ago because they were seen as a "disgrace." For example, there was a time (or so I've heard) when parents would throw an unmarried daughter out of the house if she turned up pregnant, and the family viewed her as a "disgrace." But by the time I was growing up, that seemed to have stopped (not sure how many parents actually ever did that).

Catching up w/ this thread some more, I see that the sites I mentioned had already been talked about quite a bit. Sorry if my comment about them was redundant.

Idk if estrangement is more common now than in the past or just more publicly discussed (due to the Internet, etc.). But as I said earlier, those sites make it more methodical, IMO.

Someone said that there is now almost a "cult" that encourages ac to co critical parents, etc. and asked, "What's a mother to do?" But I imagine that in SOME cases, if one knows, for example, that being critical is the problem, there's a clear path to reconcilliation. Apologize for being critical and promise not to criticize and second-guess anymore (only if one means it, of course). Our parents, pils, gps, etc. may have "gotten away with" criticizing and given unwanted advice, etc. But I think we GPs today have to realize that we can't and act accordingly.

In fact, it seems to me that there are a number of behaviors that we would have accepted from parents and pils years ago, even if while gritting out teeth, that many of our ac and cil won't accept today. They are often more assertive than many of us were. And less likely to feel they have to "put up with" this/that behavior just because we're "family." Maybe that's a reality we moms, mils and gps need to accept?

As far as this being a "support group" - not entirely, I don't think. Most of the people here are very supportive, Iv found, but I'm just back in after a long absence, so perhaps that's changed. There are some definite support threads here ,surely, but this is more of a discussion thread.

I can't find exactly where the "dramatic language" issue came in, but I agree that some of the language used to discuss estrangement today is "too dramatic." Not every parent or ac who has acted selfishly is a "narcissist," imo. Not every person one has difficulty with is "toxic." If anything, sometimes, imo, it's just the relationship between the two people in conflict that is toxic. Even so, if x has really been hurt by y, x might feel the need to go nc. Or if y doesn't get the reasons x went nc, y may be deeply hurt. I don't think we need to label people. The feelings of hurt and anger on either or both sides are going to be the same no matter what labels we use.

Sorry for so many posts in a row, but I am just catching up...

IrisBlue, what an awful situation! I totally agree with keeping your kids and yourself away from your fmil! It's true that nothing may be "proved" even if you report the situation. But, at least, you will have tried, and the siblings still at home will know there is help out there. If social services talks to them privately, they may find out a lot about the emotional abuse. Or not. All you can do is make the report. But whether or not you do, again, please keep yourself and your children far, far away.

Kas, I'm so deeply sorry. What a shock it must have been! If ed (estranged daughter) knew she was going to go nc, it was very selfish of her to ask you to babysit beforehand. However, I'm hoping she hadn't made that decision at the time. Sending you lots of hugs!

CrazyH, hugs to you, too! And a thought... maybe es has pushed his siblings away because they were trying to "patch things up" between you? Iv noticed that some people get really pissed when others get in the middle, haven't you? Also, it's part of that "script" we've talked about in this thread - co the "offending" person and then co anyone who tries to get you to change your mind ("you" meaning the person going nc). That doesn't help anyone now, I know, just a thought...

I hope I don't sound "know-it-all" by explaining about the script, crazyh. I only know what I said because Iv read it in some of those articles.

but I agree that some of the language used to discuss estrangement today is "too dramatic." Not every parent or ac who has acted selfishly is a "narcissist," imo. Not every person one has difficulty with is "toxic." If anything, sometimes, imo, it's just the relationship between the two people in conflict that is toxic

Exactly that!
Where its a topic that previously wasn't spoken of and now is still somewhat of a taboo, people on the outside wont necessarily get that just because 2 people are related means that the relationship must work/have value. I think sometimes this pushes people towards dramatic language to justify the "split".

Whereas in reality family relationships can just be a "bad match" that doesnt work. Same as some friendships and romantic relationships that dont end in a big row but simply dont work and people are happier apart (not necessarily a mutual realisation)

You're almost not allowed to say that you dont want a relationship with someone you are related to without a dramatic justification. They must have done something AWFUL for other people to not judge you.

People don't have to be "evil" to wear you down, some people just bring out the worst in each other. They leave each encounter with each other feeling a little bit hurt/disappointed/angry/exhausted/drained/worn down/whatever.

People accept this and understand if you say it about a friend/partner/colleagues that drive you to quit/walk away. But say you feel that way about someone you share genes with and you dont get the same understanding, you get "but its your SISTER"/"MOTHER"/"BROTHER"/"FATHER" you HAVE TO love your family. If you dont you better have a damn good reason. There must be abuse or violence or narcissism or evil....
Sometimes there isnt but its also the right thing to walk away..

Sometimes you stop loving people. It happens in all relationships. Theres language for this in romance and friendship, but not for families. In this vacuum people seek out a way to talk about it, and it may not be the healthiest.