The Brainwashing Behind Going No Contact

* "it's most often the act of last resort after enduring many years of torment from those who are suppose to be a source of support."*
What on earth are you talking about Brennan .....are you implying that all the estranged mothers and fathers here, have tormented their children over the years? How dare you? Yes, there may have been abuse in one or two cases, but your sweeping statement is downright offensive and I think you need to apologise to the heartbroken parents on this thread, who have shown nothing but unconditional love for their children.

I suggest brannan that you do some research into narcissism and how dare you come on here and accuse others of having no guts, when you finish your hostile post with "Bye.

You underestimate the guts of GN's if you believe that your post will go unchallenged. IMO your post is a fine example of gas lighting and projection.

Thank you for your thought provoking contribution David.

My sister has a no contact daughter for about 15 yrs, they only live 5 miles apart but every effort to contact is rebuffed. She hates her mother because of the way she was treated as a child, nothing to do with brainwashing just punishment.
I'm sure plenty of no contact has real cause.

The other sort is contrived or imagined cause, if a child is deliberately groomed by a third person, even remotely on line an impressionable child will believe it is real. Just like an eating disorder there is a group that are emotionally susceptible, especially young teens.
With so much unsupervised online activity I am not at all surprised this is happening, there are crazy weird people online that think it's fun to ruin lives. Wise parents should keep a close eye on who is in contact with children.

Its not just children adults can be susceptible, there have been plenty of cults that have turned adults against parents, again there needs to be an alternative emotional bond.

I agree about there is an epidemic, however, the epidemic is one of generational abuse of children.

Just because adults pro-create, that does not give them the right to demand lifelong loyalty - that in itself screams narcissicism at 130 db.

Your offspring are not your property - that is called controlling, manipulative behaviour.

Here's the real talk, people don't go no contact at the drop of a hat, it's most often the act of last resort after enduring many years of torment from those who are suppose to be a source of support.

If any of you had the guts, you would go and speak to an informed, highly relevant professional (therapist) about your side of the story and how you feel you've been adandoned see what they had to offer.

Calling someone else toxic when you've been the abuser is a mix of projection and gaslighting.

Bye

Oh for goodness sake agnurse we're all aware I'm sure, that there is a legal age limit for FB and other social media sites. No one is suggesting or encouraging Cabbie or anyone else to get their GC to go behind their parents backs.

I sometimes think that your apparent desire to think the worse of GP's desperately wanting to have contact with their GC, and EP's wanting to be in touch with their EAC affects your reasoning.

Smileless

If the GC are underage, any contact must only occur with the consent of the parents. Otherwise you're encouraging the children to go behind their parents' backs and saying that's okay. That's not okay.

Dontaskmea good idea to drop him a casual email on a regular basis. I hope he responds because the silence can be deafening as well as heartbreaking.

Cabbie try not to worry. It's certainly worth sending a casual and chatty email to keep the contact going and as Dontaskme has suggested, perhaps you can contact your GC directly as if they're old enough to be left without a sitter, they're probably on social media.

Dontaskme, I think you are handling things as best you can. Hope you also are finding other things to focus on - work, hobbies, friendships, volunteer work, etc. Maybe that will take the edge off the pain.

Definitely agree, Cabbie, with an email. Maybe just something casual - "Hey, haven't heard from you for awhile, just wanted to know how things are". Hubby and I each handle our own but our parents do things differently. Hubby calls his mum periodically. (We don't speak to his dad - long story - his parents are divorced but MIL and SFIL are lovely.) My mum calls me once a week. I think she does the "phone rounds" weekly with us kids to check on how everyone's doing.

Thanks to Smileless, Luckylegs and Starlady. I have told DS that I miss him but fallen on deaf ears. He wasn't in the right state of mind to get into another relationship so quickly and sadly it seems he's jumped from the frying pan into the fire. He's a fully grown adult and nothing we can do but leave him to it and hope he sees sense. I will text or email him maybe once a week just to say hi and ask how things are - his choice if he replies (or his controlling gf's) but at least I'll have tried. If he tells me to stop then I will. Life all round is a bit sh*tty at the moment and I can't think of a positive to end on I'm afraid. Chin up everyone!
Oh and Cabbie21 please message your DS. Also if your GC are all old enough to be left I take it they're old enough to have their own phones/emails etc? If you had a good relationship before (looking after them), then why not keep in contact with them with a hi, how are you?

I wouldn't worry at all Cabbie. I'm sure he is very busy with work and besides, he doesn't need any help with babysitting.
Sons are notorious for not keeping in contact. Mine leave it to their wives to keep in contact. Well, since I am not one daughterinlaw' s favourite person at the moment, I hardly hear from them. In my case, we had a falling out recently over something very silly. However, my son and I have made peace.....actually by email. I find writing easier than talking on the phone.
All the best Cabbie....as star lady has advised...drop him an email xx

I don't think you have to worry, Cabbie. Since the spreadsheet was for babysitting purposes and they no longer need a babysitter, it seems very natural to me that ds isn't contacting you now. A little thoughtless, perhaps, but natural. Imo, it would be ok to shoot him a "hello" email and see if he replies (you say he will "promptly"). If he doesn't - or if he says he's "too busy" for email conversations - then perhaps back off for a while. But, imo, a brief, pleasant message is worth a try.

I am reluctant to join this thread, as I am hoping things are not as bad as some of you are going through.

Apart from sharing some photos on WhatsApp, I have had no contact from my son since ....June? In previous years he has sent me a spreadsheet of the school holidays, to see when I am available, along with other grandparents, to do a spot of childcare, when required. I did not get a spreadsheet this year as the youngest is now deemed old enough to be left. So apart from seeing photos of various weekend breaks and family holiday weeks, I have heard nothing.
Now that they have been back at school for 3 or 4 weeks, nothing at all. I presume no news is good news, but I am feeling uncomfortable . We have not gone so long before.

Now I don’t want to be the one to break the silence. If I do, I know I shall get ticked off for not making contact, but it works both ways. If I email my son will answer pretty promptly. The GC have never taken the initiative to contact me themselves, nor has my daughter in law.
Shall I just wait, or shall I make contact? Is there more to this than meets the eye? This thread has got me worried.

My heart breaks you both, Survivor, Dontaskme, and Googoogool!

Survivor, how awful to lose your mother, daughter and gc all at once! I can barely imagine the pain! I know when I lost my mum, it would have been so much harder if I didn't have the rest of my family there for me. And, apparently, you have lost dh (dear husband), too. I am so sorry. Hugs!

Dontaskme, I'm very sorry about what you and ds went through regarding his x and your gc! And now to be "losing" ds on top of it all! How awful! Hugs!

Googoogool, hugs to you, also! I hope your ac isn't laughing in your case, and that they miss you sometimes. Mostly, I hope you don't dwell on the thought of what they may or may not be doing and try to move on with your life. I know it must be hard.

Survivor, I'm wondering, is it possible that ed (estranged daughter) walks away from people during "dark" times because she can't take it? That may be selfish of her, but my point is it may be more about her than the other person. And it might not be an attempt to hurt, but to shield herself from illness and sorrow. As far as cutting out other family members, could that be because they tried to get her to change her mind about you and dh? That doesn't ease anyone's pain, I know, but it might make things a little clearer.

Dontaskme, is it possible that ds is catering to his new partner because he's desperate to avoid another split? No one should have to change who they are to keep a relationship, but could that be what's going on? (I know that doesn't make it any less painful.)

I agree with agnurse about I-statements. And I can see your letting ds know that you miss him, as Luckylegs suggests, but only once (more than that may come across as "nagging" and drive him further away). Mostly, though, I think you should keep your few visits as pleasant as possible. You don't want to make him feel as if there's a tug of war going on.

Smileless and Luckylegs, I'm so glad you have both found ways to protect yourselves and move on. I imagine you are an inspiration to others who have been co.

Luckylegs

I think you might have misunderstood me. I never said she shouldn't tell her son the impact that it's having. I rather said she may want to phrase it differently. "You" statements tend to be seen as blaming and often will automatically put someone on the defensive. "I" statements allow the person to take ownership of his/her feelings while still explaining the impact.

So, rather than saying "you're breaking my heart", she could say, "I feel very sad when I don't hear from you." This way she phrases it as an "I" message, owning her feelings without blaming her son.

Agnurse, as usual completely disagree. Her heart is breaking. She doesn't contact him or ask for anything, never said anything like that before, she does not emotionally blackmail him, just for once saying how it is. He needs to know how his actions affect others. No one would be with anyone if they didn't form an attachment as you say, it doesn't normally exclude everyone else.

Luckylegs

I think it's appropriate to ask for greater contact, but it's not appropriate to phrase it as "you're breaking my heart". Rather, it might be better to phrase it as "I miss you when you don't call me as often." (Using "I" messages is usually more effective because it's not interpreted as blaming.)

Many times I've heard from EAC reporting that their parents said things such as "You're killing your mother!" "Dad had a heart attack and it's all YOUR fault!" "I had to go on antidepressants because of YOU!" That's not helpful.

The reality is that it's healthy and normal for an AC to form an attachment to their partner. What's not reasonable is for the partner to completely isolate that person. I think parents and AC need to find a balance - the AC should periodically contact the parents, but the parents need to accept that they are no longer #1.

If the parents start blaming their AC for the parents' mental health, it's hardly surprising that the AC don't want to see them anymore.

Dontaskme, your post could make me cry. What you describe of your sons relationship with you breaking down because of his new partner is all too familiar. If he is under her spell, there is nothing you can do about it. On the next visit, however brief, you need to put into as few words as possible what his behaviour is doing to you. For example, we were so close, I miss you, I was do pleased you found love again, but you both shutting me out is breaking my heart. One day he will remember those words. I don't think you will alter his attitude, but you will have stated your case. I have seen the painful journey Smileless has taken, she made brave choices, a new life, despite everything she, like me had to protect ourselves and those who do care for us. Because if we didn't it would kill us and we can't change how they feel, as they say they are being harassed and controlled, it is a no win situation. They hold all the cards until we decide enough is enough. I refuse to be a victim of totally repellent behaviour.

Having already been through so much and lost your GC it's
unthinkable that you could be in the process of losing your son Dontaskme. I'm so very sorry and wish I could think of something to say.

Sadly, Googoogool is right "once the AC make up their mind with the encouragement of the partner" it does seem to be 'game over'.

Survivor "I've accepted the NC as my protection". I've done that too. It took me two years to understand that the only way I could be safe was to remain NC with our son. He almost destroyed me, and there's no way I could risk contact with him again.

I just want to add to make it clear - it's without doubt his new partner who is doing this. She has even said that adults don't need their parents. Also when I say "on the odd occasion he pops in" that's very very rare and only because he wants to borrow something like a saw or drill which we never see again.

I am so sorry to hear of your heartache Survivor and Dontaskme! No-one can understand the pain it causes when a child no longer wants anything to do with us. Even to the point of apparently disliking us. Some of what you say Survivor rings true in my situation. Personally I am not that tough and easily wounded so an ideal target! Also I have seen the same perpetrator do similar to others and laugh about it, so I am pretty sure the same will be done about me. I do hope you both can find some peace and move forward. Sorry I can't be more positive but I think once the AC make up their mind, with the encouragement of the partner, and probably boast about how they have treated us, they really don't want to be seen as weakening and showing a glimmer of kindness.

I have previously posted on the estrangement thread and gave up due to, what can I say, ignorant? posters. Anyway more has happened and I am completely shattered. Background:
My Son and his ex split up and she took the children, refusing us any contact at all and making false allegations against my DS, which meant he had to embark on very biased and sexist fight through court to see his children. It went on for such a long time that his mental health, physical health, career, relationships - everything - suffered so much that finally he had to withdraw from proceedings, which is devastating but right as he was suicidal and his ex was determined to lie endlessly to use the children to "punish" him for splitting from her.

He has now met someone new and quickly got into a partnership with her, moving in, getting engaged and planning a wedding. She does not have a good relationship with her family and she is, without any shadow of doubt, encouraging our DS to distance himself from us. He used to call me by a lovely pet name, would visit all the time, have long chats, message me - we had a really good relationship and we have been here for him through the difficult time we have all suffered. We were so close. Now I don't get replies to my messages, he doesn't contact us and on the odd occasion that he pops in she is with him, making sure he doesn't stay long or chat. She just about says "hello" and doesn't speak. We have tried and tried but she blanks us. Our DS has started to say things that aren't from him - she is influencing him so much he truly IS being brain washed.

Its too much. We have lost our GC and are now losing our DS. My eyes keep filling with tears and I miss my DS so much, added to the loss of the GC and all the dreams and plans we had of the fun and lovely times we were to have. Its too sad,

My daughter decided (with the help of the new "life coach" craze) to go No Contact during the time I was losing my mother and continued through her death. She made up stories in an attempt to validate this behavior that were false and ridiculous. Losing my mom, daughter and grandchildren was almost enough to make me contemplate suicide. I didn't understand any of it and felt frustrated as you can't effect change if you can't even communicate. A true psychiatrist would suggest open and honest conversation, NC is a dead end! Makes me wonder how they expect to handle the rest of the world when encountering difficulty, just stop talking...lol! It's a joke really, but a very painful and manipulative process that ruins lives, relationships and, in my case, broke my heart and those of my grandchildren as we used to be so very close.
I got help and learned that NC in cases of sexual or physical abuse is understandable but when used as a power play for control and manipulation, it's the AC who is the Narcissist (or worse as in my daughter's case). The doctor referred to her as having a dark personality disorder (Dark Tetrad = Narc/Sadist/Mach/Psycho). Yes, she's a real treat! Turns out much of the NC craze is perpetrated by those who exhibit the traits they find "unacceptable" in those they target. Many targets are chosen because they are loving, caring people the AC knows they can hurt. Sick really when you can see it clearly. My daughter and her husband have done this to several family members (mostly grandparents) and don't care about hurting their own children. It's not for protection, it's for a demented form of control.
I survived because I learned what NC really is to those who were loved. My daughter walked away from my husband when he was dying and from me at the darkest time of my life as well, so in truth, I've accepted the NC as my protection against an evil and depraved person who finds sick gratification in observing and causing pain in others. My heart still breaks for my grandchildren as they are innocent pawns in a painful game. The sad thing is all the destruction NC brings and once gone too far may never come back, but of course the people who teach it don't care either. When people tell me they're a life coach now, I can't get away fast enough, they don't enhance and improve relationships, they kill them.

Notanan, I think you're making a lot of sense. And I even think some of those sites are helpful in that they can help people to avoid giving out confusing messages. The "Nc means nc" idea seem extreme, for example - no phone calls, no emails, no gifts, etc. But it's less confusing than if someone says "no more contact" and then sends one a nasty note. Iows, the person going nc is less likely to give out mixed messages.

However, I think it's still hard on the people being co. They don't know if they other person is trying not to give them mixed messages or not. They just know they are suddenly ghosted and often, don't understand why, and don't seem to have any way of talking it out.

I guess what I'm saying is that these sites can help people make a clean co. But that, in turn, can cause tremendous hurt, maybe as much or more as if the co weren't so total and methodical.

However if youre talking chicken or egg

I dont think the unhelpful online rhetorics are necessarily the cause of the "break-up" for want of a better word. I think they are saught out when people are going through it anyway but don't know how to talk about it/describe it/explain it