Support for all who are living with estrangement

hugshelp. I used to send "my love out in the ether and hope some of it" touched our ES. It isn't twaddle, it's lovely.

Our ES said he and his wife 'needed space' that was over 6.5 years ago. If your son is hostile to your attempts to get in touch, you're doing the right thing for letting it go. You need to be able to enjoy the time you spend with DD without your estrangement from your son casting a dark shadow over it.

As you posted "extreme pain and grief does sometimes give rise to anger". IMO it's only to be expected and has often been expressed here, it's not necessarily what is said but the way in which it is said that can lead to the distress of others. Sadly though sometimes it's the content as much as the delivery that can be hurtful.

Thoughts of moving are on the back burner for now. I was thinking the other day what strange creatures we are. We make plans that we think are fool proof and from those plans our dreams grow, and why not?

We plan to marry and then to have children and as they grow our thoughts turn to when they themselves perhaps marry and have their children, our GC.

When we were told our ES's wife was pregnant I began to dream of what it would like for us to be GP's; the things we could do and the places we might go. I thought it would be for us like it was for our parents, but it wasn't to be.

So, I've decided not to plan too far ahead or get carried way with dreams. We're so lucky to have found this lovely house and to have made it our home, that will do me for the time being.

I don't want to push my luck.

Sorry you're not being treated well Lyndyloo1 - part of me thinks that maybe if you gave her some space and backed off your DD would miss you and make more effort. But in light of the way my ES just pulled further and further away that might be terrible advice. This generation just don't seem to deal with things in a way I can understand (probably what everyone's parents have said) so I'm at a loss. But I hope she comes around somehow.

With regards to the way support is offered on this thread, I just think there is never going to be a one-size fits all. My ES started the estrangement with , 'I need time to think, if you love me give me space, I'll check in to let you know I'm alive but need a few months' That was over 3 years ago, and I'm still waiting for the conversation that he promised me when he's ready. He has yet to tell me why he's angry, though I think our DD now knows but isn't allowed to say. So I can't see what advice anyone could give me as to how to proceed since he only ignored any attempts by me to communicate. And I did wait months, as he asked, before trying. I'd more than willing to hear where I've hurt him and try to fix it but I am denied the chance. But if anyone has any helpful idea I am all ears for sure.

I do think mental healthy issued are involved as is the case for some others in here. And those are nobody's fault but make things much harder.

Yes I do sometimes see parents saying angry things about their own kids, and I do think those things wouldn't help if the kids heard them, but I do assume it is just venting. As extreme pain and grief does sometimes give rise to anger.
I think if someone says something along those lines that sounds unhelpful to their situation, then a gentle suggestion of a better idea to a specific person, if done kindly, could be helpful.

But sometimes it seems that someone comes on and gives a statement that is not worded gently and seems to be addressed to the whole thread. I don't know about anyone else but I'm still so fragile that I do feel attacked when I see these kind of posts. And I guess people who have left the thread felt similar.

For me, just having someone to say, 'me too, it hurts so bad, you're not alone' is all I can hope for. And it helps me hugely.

I'm glad you found a happy home smileless - can't advise you on the living near friends thing, as I can totally see how you would be torn. What if you never find your safe place again? But at the same time being near your friends makes you so happy. Maybe you could find somewhere near them to rent for an extended stay without giving your home up to help you decide?

The complete ignoring of attempts at contact is soul-destroying I know Rhinestone. It seems from what I'm getting from DD that my ES is only hostile towards my attempts anyway so I'm giving us both a rest for now. I think of him every day, and am often teary, but I send my love out in the ether and hope some of it touches him. Which is probably twaddle but...

Thinking of you all, and of your families. x

Yes it was worth all the trouble he went too.

Bless you crazy for your post. It was a huge relief to us all when we knew that you'd been spared the pain of estrangement and it's so thoughtful of you to pop on here from time to time with your kind wishes for us all.

How lovely for you Smileless that your friends are like your family. I have been following your story and the stories of other heartbroken parents and GPs . As you probably know, I was almost in your sad and unenviable position last year, and despite your pain, you and the other GNs gave me so much love and support .
I drop in here, hoping to read some reconciliation stories. I think there are one or two, and some in progress.
Hope everyone finds peace in their lives . Lots of for those still hurting.

Oh good Smileless I hope it's worth it and of a little help.

He went to 6 different places before managing to get one. Thanks for your help.

Oh how I wish I could do links. I have just Googled Bel Mooney Estrangement. Her problem page from today came up entitled something like 'An illicit kiss made me resent my sexless marriage'. If you click on that and keep scrolling down, the article is at the bottom.

Mr. S. bless him has popped out to buy the paper; hope they haven't sold out.

No, couldn't find it.

Thanks I'll take a look.

You may be able to Google it. It's part of the Bel Mooney column.

Thanks for that KatyK I'll see if I can get the paper.

I don't usually post on this thread as I am not estranged. I haven't read all 30 pages of posts so apologies if this has been mentioned before. There is an article in The Daily Mail today regarding the day if action on 4 September for Broken Bonds: The Plight of children estranged from their grandparents. It is an informative article. Sorry I can't do links.

Lyndylool I'm gad that you now feel able to tell your friends what's really going on with on with your D.

When I first came to an estrangement thread here on GN, the understanding and support I received here in this virtual world, helped me to open up in the real one and being able to do that really helped so I'm sure it will help you too.

IMO you're doing the right thing by no longer making offers of help and there's no point in bringing her up to date with what's going on with you and those in your life, if she's going to ignore you.

Waking up and smelling the coffee is a huge step, it's the hardest thing in the world IMO to realise that you are no longer important to your own child.

Thankyou for your kind words. There has never been any confrontation, we have only asked in a nice way if we could see the children and my D more often. We were over a week or so ago at her house. She was saying the children were having an out get with their uncle. I suggested that whilst she was at work the children could spend a day with us, her reply was that age didn't know if we'd arranged to go away, and in any case the childminder was booked. Clearly she doesn't want us involved too much.
At the bank holiday I suffered a fracture, messaged her to tell her, but not once did she ask how I was, nor has she contacted me since to see how I was. My life long friend, who my daughter knows well, had to have her dog put to sleep, I messaged my D, she never even replied to say how sad that was, all she did was send me a link to a holiday cottage they have booked. I have also told her that this friend has serious worries, her niece is undergoing treatment for cancer, and my friends sister is having surgery next week to remove a tumour from her lung. Not once has my D expressed any sympathy.
Yes the MIL is very controlling, and I think very selfish, for example a few years ago my D and SIL took the children to Disney in America, the mother in law said she didn't want to see any pictures or discuss the holiday with them as she thought it was stupid of them. We helped out by having by D dogs for three weeks and sent regular updates of the dogs to our GC. The mil also says quite nasty this to my D, but still nothing changes, they were all out recently for a meal, as ever we never get asked to join them.
We have always known we are at least second best. We are no longer going to offer futile offers to help out, if my D wants to contact us she knows where we are. We are now after all these years going to explain to friends just how we are sidelined.
My D can not offer any explanation as to why she is treating us like the, all we get are pathetic excuses.
It's time we woke up and smelt the coffee. We've done nothing wrong, she has been given ample opportunities to say why she's like she is. We have reached the sad conclusion that for her own reasons we are not important to her.

I'm sorry you've not been well Rhinestone. The physical manifestations of stress are terrible aren't they and can be very alarming.

Having done what your psychologist suggested and sent your S a text, although he's not responded, do you think this might help you to move on?

I understand from your posts over the years that your son's mental health has been a source of great distress and worry for you. This must make the pain of your estrangement even harder to deal with.

That's a good point Razz and we can take that love with us too.

Always go (or stay) where the love is

Smileless You now have options and if the time came and you felt you wanted to go to your DS you can. Time will tell.
Does your DS still keep in contact with his brother?
Well I went back to seeing the psychologist because having two children, my son and my stepson, not speaking to us is too much to bear frankly. I am also having stress issues that is affecting me physicallly. I was encouraged to text my son and tell him that I am thinking about him and I am here if he wants to speak to or see us. I did. NO ANSWER. To me that is the ultimate slap in the face. The psychologist did say that it sounded like mental illness plays a part in my son's decision to be estranged and that my stepson seemed to have issues (real or imagined) with my DH.
She said genetics and environment play alot into these estrangements.

Thank you rosecarmel and Madgran

Smileless the move is still a possibility at some point in the future. Just having it as a possibility if needed is good, but for the moment enjoy your safe place...a concept I certainly understand. You will know if and when the time is right to come back to the possibility!

It doesn't sound insane- Right now you're enjoying what you have together- But I get where you are coming from-

I posted last week that we were away and to say that we were touched by the love we received from our friends, their adult sons and their partners and their children, would be an understatement.

We talked of the possibility of moving to be near them and we both got caught up in the 'dream'. It's been said since our estrangement and our DS's move to Aus. that if either of us were to lose the other, they would move. It also makes sense that such a move be made together so that we would each have the comfort of knowing that the other was settled and surrounded by our 'family'.

Now we are home, we're not so sure. This isn't a decision to be taken lightly and of course isn't one that needs to be rushed but as daft as it might seem, our problem is our home here.

We've been living here for almost 3 years in the most amazing and beautiful house we've ever owned and neither of us, for the time being at least, can envisage leaving.

TBH the mere possibility has left me feeling rather unsettled. I know that where ever you live, you make that house your home but this house has a great deal of significance for us both.

It was only when we moved here, 4 years into our estrangement, that we began to heal and find the peace and happiness we never thought to have again.

I feel 'safe' here and when we are away, regardless of how much I'm enjoying myself, there comes a point where I long to return to my safe place.

It took such a long time to find that place where I live and within myself that I suppose I'm afraid to lose it.

Thanks for listening, I feel better for getting that off my chest and having just read my post before posting, I realise that it sounds a little insane.

I'm sorry to hear that, there's no need for rudeness is there. Was that on this thread Razz as I've scrolled back and can't find anything?

Hopefully everyone would try to be gentle, someone was pretty rude to me here when I first joined and no one defended me.