Support for all who are living with estrangement

It is of course good as you say Starlady for questions to be asked and for suggestions to be made and that does happen on this thread.

GoodMama I agree that we will have to disagree on that point.

IMO, sometimes someone just wants to feel they've been "heard," truly "heard." IOWs that somebody else understands their feelings and that they are not alone in their troubles. And that is what many posters get here.

I appreciate your point, GM and Razz, that "too much" commiseration and chiming in w/ how "bad" the poster's AC is, etc., may only serve to stoke the poster's anger and keep them from finding a possible way to fix the situation w/ their AC. That's why I feel that after their feelings have been validated and compassion shown, etc., there's no harm - and maybe even some good - in making a few suggestions or asking a few questions that might lead to resolution. But, IMO, these questions and comments can be made gently and don't necessarily have to be blunt.

Smileless, I understand I will not be able to change your mind, and that’s ok. I’m not trying to.
You are very invested in the board and your identity as an estranged mother.

We will have to agree to disagree on what constitutes “support” and success.

I would think on a board about estrangement that reunification would be the measure of success. But apparently not.

Lol!

only all should have been in bold.

You asked me earlier today Razzmatazz" if I saw this thread only for EP's and not for AC who have estranged themselves from their parents, and I told you that I do not, it is for *all living with estrangement, so I don't know why you felt it necessary to suggest that might be the case again.

It's difficult to understand how someone feels who has experienced something that you haven't, and to be able to relate to those feelings. That's why sharing with those who do and have can be beneficial.

What some regard as enabling, others see as helpful and supportive. One size doesn't fit all and bearing in mind that this particular thread, although it's title has changed slightly over the years, has been running for more than 6 years I think it's safe to say that it's been pretty successful for many, if not all who have shared here.

Exactly GG

Well as for "go elsewhere" This is the least hostile place I have visited so far, or I had thought so until yesterday. There really isn't another option apart from places purely for estranged children. When I don't want to be put in a box or put others in a box.

Would you rather EC go away instead of working on having a good relationship and finding a way to get on? Instsad of hearing their perspective and gaining a little understanding? It seems like that would be a pattern I have seen before.

“After everything I have done for them. After all my sacrificing?”

Isn’t that what your supposed to do for your children? Isn’t that what it means to be a parent? I’ll never understand anyone who expects anything in return for doing what your supposed to do as a parent.

I also have ever understood what constitutes an "ungrateful brat" with a side of "after everything I have done for them! After all my sacrificing".

I have provided for my children until they were able to provide for themselves. I haven't sacrificed anything, I have gained family and the amazing privilege of helping them grow. Now they are off out doing their own growing and making their own decisions and as long as they are happy so am I. So those comments make me uncomfortable. I cannot relate at all. I wanted children, not carbon copies of myself that I could control and have worship me.

GoodMama, I agree with you completely.

I have seen posters (not even on this thread) come to Gransnet, afraid of estrangement, and seeking advice. They have insinuated a multitude of behaviours on their part, that are clearly contributing to the deterioration of the relationship with their adult son/daughter. I have seen some posters point out exactly where they are going wrong, however those posters are often told they are being “unkind”, that the OP has “done nothing wrong” and that she is a “loving mother and grandmother”. It is beyond unhelpful to the OP.

Enabling is damaging and simply serves to keep people stuck in their current situation (not limited to estrangement).

I am not a perfect mother. I have made many mistakes. But I always apologised to my children (I was never apologised to), still do, and strived to do better and did do better. Telling myself that I had “done nothing wrong” and was a “good and loving mother” would have kept me imitating my parents’ idea of parenting, and I would never have grown to be a better mother. Enabling helps no one.

I have seen "escalating name calling and criticism of ... sons and daughters" on other threads but not on this one GoodMama and as for "tales and tales of commiserating stories" that's to be expected on a support thread.

When someone says they understand and shares their experience with you, which is very much like your own, then you know they understand.

Exactly Starlady and for some who are at a very low ebb, be they the parent who has been estranged or the AC that has decided to estrange themselves from their parent(s) "getting a little shock of honesty and bluntness" is the last thing they need. And let's face it, that honesty is just someone's opinion isn't it.

What you regard as "coddling" GoodMama others see as support and as long as it's found helpful that's all that matters.

Those who don't like or agree with the help and support they find here can go elsewhere and hopefully find what they're looking for, but for someone who had for a year been helped by this thread and the one that came before it, to leave because of responses they were receiving that they didn't expect on this thread, well IMO that's just wrong.

Maybe that's because this particular thread operates differently and "what seems to work other places" doesn't seem to work here.

Go with GoodMama's reply it's much better than mine

I actually hadn't seen that here Star, which is why I am chatting here. Does that happen here? I do totally get venting and using ugly language, but I would save that for close friends who knew I was venting. I might possibly even let a close friend call whoever I was vented about a bad name, because I would know it was helping me to vent and that they know all the wonderful things I know about the person I am venting about. I am going to say that loosely because unless it was someone I had stopped having a relationship with, like an ex, I can't remember that actually happening. I cannot imagine letting strangers call someone I was venting about bad names. If anything that would probably hold a mirror to what I was saying and make me feel horrible about myself.

As a previous poster said, estranged children read those types of comments as well and, it might push them further away from their own parent because they aren't healed enough yet to judge situations on an individual basis.

Starlady, I agree a good vent is helpful. But what happens on here often isn't just a good vent. It's releasing the hostile feelings they have toward their adult son or daughter and the piling on of other posters winding them up instead of talking them down and helping them see reason.

Having those feelings and expressing them is all well and good, but I can promise you they don't hold it in as well as they think they do from their adult sons and daughters. Just like the posters know when they've upset or annoyed their adult sons and daughters, the sons and daughters can feel when their mother (or mother in law) is that angry with them and holding it in or "faking it". It comes across passive aggressive, dismissive or outright aggressive behavior toward the people they claim to want a relationship with.

I suppose my point is that after a good vent it would be helpful for the poster to be met with honesty and, yes, blunt analysis. Instead they are met with escalating name calling and criticism of their sons and daughter and tales and tales of commiserating stories.

And that is not support. It's enabling and toxic and it hurts the poster in the long run.

Or they may just be venting on here. IMO, we have to expect that in a support thread. Some people are really going to let their guard down and spill out all their worst feelings. And yes, parents can get very angry at their AC and experience some very ugly feelings towards them. That doesn't mean they don't still love and respect them. (I know you ladies didn't say anything about love.) Just as some AC have some really ugly feelings towards their parents, even though they still love and respect them underneath it all. In fact, IMO, it's good if posters here let it all out, so we can see how deep their hurt and anger are and maybe talk them back from the edge if possible. If they keep all that bottled up inside, no doubt, it's going to explode somewhere - perhaps, unfortunately, onto the very relationship they'd like to save.

(Whoops, didn’t finish)

...when they express such angry and disrespect toward their own adult children. Let’s you know a little bit about what the AC have been feeling.

Razzmatazz123, very good point. It’s hard to argue that people are supporting one another to find reconciliation when they

Seen not SEN, lots of messages going back and forth from my phone about special education needs right now.

Good mama, I have to say I have SEN a lot of comments in the past from people calling their children ungrateful brats. That makes me feel very uncomfortable coming from the person who raised them. That's not the worst though, the worst is when they complain about their EC and let complete strangers call their children ungrateful brats.

Bopeep, IDK if you're still reading here or not. But if you are, I want to say that I totally understand how you feel about your mum. I would too if I were in your situation. And, IMO, it's noble of you to put her needs ahead of your own.

IDK if your letter will work or not. I hope it does, but I know it might not. As some posters have suggested, ES may resent what he sees as an attempt at "shaming." But I get that you felt you had to try, and at least, you'll know you did.

Please realize there is a third possibility. While ES may not reach out to your mum right away, he might, at least, begin to think about it. I don't think she should try to make contact any more though. I don't think more cards/letters than she has already sent will get her any results if the others haven't. But that's her call, of course.

Be that as it may, IDK if there's much else you can do to make your poor mum feel better about this situation. Have you tried finding ways to help her keep her mind off of it? To help her shift her focus to those parts of her life that bring her satisfaction and joy? That might be the best you can do for her in case ES doesn't reconnect with her or while she's still waiting.

IMO, you are a good, loving DD. I hope your efforts on behalf of your mum bear fruit.

Madgran, I understand your point and it is well made.

I wanted to add that by the time someone is facing “Cut off” or estrangement that they most likely have been told why their behavior is causing conflict by the person they are soon to be estranged from and they haven’t listened.

CO and estrangement are, after all, extreme responses. Usually on taken as nothing else has worked and the other person has to take drastic measures to have some peace.

Since they come to this board on the brink of the relationship I don’t think soft words will resonate with them, they havent heard the words from their loved one.

But on other boards getting a little shock of honesty and bluntness from “internet strangers” that says, “of course you are wrong and I see the other persons point”. Then followed by advice and guidance (and support) seems to help the poster step back.

If everyone (people you know and people you don’t know) tell you that you’re wrong you have to have a moment of self reflection, no?

It seems to work other places.

On here, it’s usually coddling that is disguised as support. But rarely is a poster outright told “you are wrong, if you continue on this path you will lose your son or daughter. Listen to what they say to you. Preoccupy yourself with something else for a while. Don’t bother them. Let them come to you. Don’t expect them to meet your expectations. It will only cause a bigger rift. Don’t talk badly about them to others, etc”.

It’s usually “oh, those ungrateful children. Don’t they know you are matriarch of them? They have no right to parent their child and not let you intervene. You should march over there and demand they leave so you can babysit”.

(I am exaggerating here, but honestly only a little).