Support for all who are living with estrangement

Thank you hdh.

The reason your son told your DH that he didn't get the letter is because by lying, he was attempting to make you out to be a liar.

It's very sad, the lengths some estranging AC will go too in order to try and justify the unjustifiable. If they truly believe they have done the right thing, for all the right reasons then why lie.

cherries, you posted yesterday that your son lives abroad. Our DS lives in Aus. and when he was married our d.i.l. never engaged with us when we were skyping or face timing him; she 'left us to it'.

Has your d.i.l. told you that she wants nothing to do with you or could it be that like our son's wife, she's just leaving you to talk to your son and GC?

You were so brave to share your post Smileless2012 - it is something I have had personnel experience in the past but I don't feel brave enough to share any details so I really admire your courage and your selflessness in trying to help someone. Really don't know what to think about GranandAnna 's situation except what a terrible terrible thing for everyone concerned.

Oh goodness what a terrible situation. So much happening while I wasn't here!
Had a nice meal out with DD and her BF but she filled us in about what had been happening with ES. He did get the letter and had been discussing it with her and didn't believe the things I said in it - really can't work out why he said to DH he never got it and gave him all sorts of reasons as to my motivations for pretending to send a letter!
She also said ES has joined a group for people whose parents are narcissists, although he does say that a lot of the stuff people talk about doesn't apply - that' something at least. I can't swear I don't do anything a narcissist does and I'd love him to tell me the things he's unhappy about but he says if he sees me he'd shout and scream at me. I made it clear to DD he can do that, it would be preferable to no communication, but I doubt he will.

You can't close this thread GranandAnna, it will move on to other discussions about estrangement, as you have decided to move on without it.

I'm glad that you've found it helpful and that it was here for you when you needed it as were those who post here.

Some good advice has been offered and I wish you and your family well as you all try to come to terms with what has happened, and what perhaps is still to come.

Take care.

Thank you so much everyone and I mean absolutely everyone who replied here. I am going to take down the names of the books and sites you recommended. But I am going to leave this now somehow if I figure out how to close it.

It has been really useful because all of this just swims and swims in my head so even having this opportunity to put it out there has been really helpful for me. I will think about what has been said, most of it has been said to me before if I am honest. Certainly talking to Bibbity and some of the others is like having my younger daughter in the room which has been a very good thing.

I am not sure if I have the answers but I have plenty to think about and food for thought.

Thank you again everyone.

GranandAnna, you sound terribly conflicted. Would you be able to get some counselling for yourself, without your husband there, to help you cope with the situation? The shame is not yours to bear, neither is it your daughter’s. Your husband may have had a bad experience with the mediator, but it seems like that was down to him not liking what he was hearing so don’t let that put you off. It will at the very least help you out of the cycles you have described.

www.rapecrisisscotland.org.uk/help-introduction/

I don't know if you can use this organisation if you don't live in Scotland, GranandAnna, but it looks as if it could be really useful. There is a helpline and email support for anyone affected by sexual violence, publications which include leaflets for parents and a reading list.

GranandAnna - your story is such difficult reading. I just can't imagine your pain. I am neither eloquent, nor insightful to say anything , except to offer my good wishes to you , Smileless and all the others who have experienced familial sexual abuse

Everything about him has changed since Bibbity. He was always a creature of habit while he doesn’t do social he had a routine of exercise and activities and that has all stopped. He rarely meets anyone. He does not discuss this much anymore but things are very different.

He absolutely hated what the therapist said that day but he much, much more hated that he didn’t get things right and that his daughter has not spoken to him since.

Was he actually traumatised or did he just not like what was being said?

Readymeals you could definitely say my son struggles socially. I honestly think now he has traits of other things other than autism. The mediator said to my husband that he sounded like he had traits of psychopathy after he was told everything he had done. That was another part of my husband feeling so traumatised.

Thank you for the links.

GG I actually think you are probably right about the lack of empathy I have for my daughter at the moment. That is probably today’s emotional rollercoaster. Tomorrow it will be some other version and she will come out absolutely on top and then the guilt and absolute shame will kick in again until I can handle it no more and then I will get angry again because I am so powerless to change any of it and so the cycle goes. I get angry I think because I cannot cope with the guilt and I want so badly for things to change but I cannot make them change. I don’t get any of the same sense of guilt over my son or my husband just plain old anger so their cycle is much shorter. Just lots of anger for my son followed by concern then anger.

I know that makes absolutely no sense but everyday in this nightmare is a different day. Everyday brings a whole swathe of different emotions. You could be talking to a different version of me tomorrow and ever day after.

GG65 Sometimes delivery is irrelevant, and it is the words that are important, no matter how they are said.

Thankyou for replying to me. Lets agree to disagree. I am sorry you have been upset and I do understand the point on that that you are making.

Grandana You have experienced a husband who has worked hard and provided for you all; that is positive for you. Maybe thinking about how your children experienced emotional responses to their opening up about their experiences might help you to see why they cannot see him in the same light as you. To others his actions and your own towards the abuse in your family may not look the same as it does to you. I think Smileless gives good advice - talk to your children if you can

Cherries posted a potentially useful link. Also there are a couple of good websites but I can't get the links to post. If you type in "Emotional trauma in families after abuse" a range of options come up which might be helpful to you and your family members.

Actually GranandAnna, sometimes it's the people who struggle socially who find it hard to develop healthy sex lives. Not saying that's the conclusion we should draw about your husband, just saying that's not going to allay anyone's suspicions.

Statistically most people who abuse are former victims of abuse. (That said, most abuse victims do not go on to abuse others.) It is highly likely that your son sadly was abused - and most likely by someone you trusted. According to abuse prevention training I did, 60% of abusers are unrelated people who are known to the family and 29% are family members.

Smiles they have clarified but yet it doesn’t clarify anything. I have known my husband for a long time and I have never, never seen anything to suggest that he has behaved inappropriately. I definitely have not.

My husband if anything really struggles socially and so avoids most social interactions, hence why he was so close to our son. He struggles to interpret emotions and we have a grandchild with autism I would say my husband has traits but that means he is a total homebird rather than someone with a tonne of opportunity to meet other women. But yet this has come up.

Madgran77, I understand what you are saying. I did not submit my initial post to the OP for that very reason. However, the lack of empathy the OP has for her youngest daughter and the concern she has for everyone else - her husband, her son, herself - has upset me greatly. Calling out posters for their lack of sympathy towards the OP, who shows none for her daughter, detracts from the subject at hand. Sometimes delivery is irrelevant, and it is the words that are important, no matter how they are said.

My daughter has gotten it into her head that her father must have done the same as his son for him to be behaving the way he has

That was my first thought as well. There is a lot of evidence to support that this is commonly a learned behaviour. Not always but it does happen. Would also explain his devote loyalty to your son. Maybe he’s worried about what he will start to say.

Yes it is common unfortunately and that’s why it’s so important to break the cycle. As it looks like your daughters are fighting to do. Unfortunately you, your husband and your son are not safe for small children to be around and so they must protect the children so that they are not exposed or in danger.

Ok I see Bibbity because you were comparing him to my son. My daughter has gotten it into her head that her father must have done the same as his son for him to be behaving the way he has. She has been clear that she has no experience or evidence for this but she is interpreting her father’s reaction to this in this way. I was wondering if that was what you are saying.

My son has outright asked us if we have abused or been abused ourselves. Apparently his counsellor said it was common for it to happen over multiple generations. That was what I was wondering.

Your husband has astronomically failed his daughters when they needed him the most.
No amount of being Dads Taxi makes up for what he has done to them, allowed to happen to them, and now it’s revealed will continue to allow happen to them.

I’m sorry I didn’t understand your last question.

Perhaps if things have been said about your husband by your D and S that you don't understand GranandAnna you should seek clarity from them.

I don't think it's appropriate for anyone here to start judging your husband but if you do have any concerns, speak to your children.

Yes Hithere, from various reading I've done, a lot of parents have to sadly go that route.

www.amazon.co.uk/Trust-After-Trauma-Relationships-Survivors/dp/1572241012?tag=gransnetforum-21

This is a book that I have just come across on one Rape Crisis Centre's recommended reading list. I've not read it myself but see that it is well reviewed on amazon.co.uk. The title indicates that the intended readership includes loved ones.

The Rape Crisis organisation could be worth approaching again, GranandAnna, as they seem to offer non-judgemental advice and support for affected family members, * irrespective of the circumstances *.