How do I forget they exist?

Not easy to draw a line in the sand, or both sides apologising if there is only one willing participant. Wish it were that easy!

I agree March viewing a situation differently doesn't necessarily mean that someone is being unsympathetic or bitter. That said it's all about the delivery of that view isn't it.

It's good to see you back Jenty and I hope you are here to stay.

I guess we need to filter out some of the responses that are given. I don't mean that we should disregard those that may be challenging or not in agreement with our own, but those that are confrontational, rude and hurtful.

Support comes in many different forms though.
This isn't a support thread it's a post by a lady, a mum who is looking for answers, just because posters, including myself, can see it from another person's perspective doesn't make us bitter or unsympathetic.
OP only seems to understand it from her perspective and her frame of mind.

Maybe it's because I can see it from the estranged persons side (I'm married to one) and can see it from both sides. I'm a mom too but unless the OP can see it from her Daughters point of view aswell as her own, nothing will improve.

A line needs to be drawn in the sand. Apologies on both sides need to be made. Acknowledgment on both sides and start a fresh. Relationships are give and take and needs understanding and work. This sounds like a very fragile relationship which has broken down over the years. The poxy Lego was the straw that broke the camel's back.

well said Smileless, I also didnt post for a good year, I didnt even look at gransnet because of upsetting responses by posters who have never been estranged!

Namsnanny thank you

Everything you have mentioned in your posts Rosecarmel can be, and often is what estranged P's and GP's experience because it's the behaviour of their AC who are estranging them.

Yes, there are parents who due to their abusive treatment of their C become estranged and there are also P's who become estranged because of the abusive treatment they are receiving from their AC.

In both cases it is often the case that the abuser sees nothing wrong in the way they've behaved. An abusive parent doesn't recognise what they've done and the AC who is abusing their parents by refusing all contact and withdrawing GC without justification, can just as strongly argue that they are not responsible for the estrangement.

As is often stated here on GN, we only get to hear one side of the story; that's true and is relevant whether it is an estranging AC who is posting or an estranged P/GP.

There are numerous historical examples here on GN however, where an estranging AC is rarely challenged and asked what they may have done to contribute or even cause the rift but, this is a common theme when 'support' and 'advice' is being given to the estranged P/GP.

In order to give as much help and support as possible a support thread for those living with estrangement has been running here on GN for more than 6 years. Over the years posters have been driven away because of some of the responses they've received. Threads of this nature have once again, on this thread, been ridiculed by referring to them as echo chambers.

The OP on this thread has not posted for some time and stated that she was being upset and frustrated by some of the responses received.

As you say Rosecarmel those who are estranged be they the estranging AC or the estranged parent are hurting and begin a new thread on this topic, or share on an existing thread for support.

Not everyone will be in agreement at all times, but is it necessary to make hurtful and confrontational comments? For example for an estranged P and GP to be told by another poster that that poster knows why they are estranged?

Many GN's contribute to offer advice and support whether or not they themselves are estranged, for both the estranged and the estranging. Sadly, some come on to rub salt into the wound and this is usually directed at those who have lost AC and GC because of this tragic situation.

Rose Carmel, I suggest you walk in my shoes then tell me what how you feel. Reading statistics and coming up with a generalisation is pointless and very hurtful.

Oh OK Rosecarmel but even if this is the case, we come on here for support because we're hurting. Some of us would do anything to turn the clocks back and have the chance to reconcile. We're just people and no one thinks we're perfect

Namsnanny, I've read through many grandmothers stories on this forum, other forums, blogs, articles and social media -- and also radio and podcasts when the subject of estrangement is the topic of discussion-

And there are common threads that run through each story where the parent/grandparent claims that there's nothing they did to merit being completely distanced-

Each story is different, but each had the same ending- The grandparent/parent was estranged and they didn't do anything to contribute to the situation-

They are the grandparents that forfeit their relationships with their children, they are the parents that refuse to consider the truth that they did contribute to their situation, and by their refusal to dig for the truth choose the loop, the vicious cycle that keeps them in denial-

When an individual shares a story that reveals where they went astray, basically revealing a truth, and it's pointed out to them by others that what they revealed is where they went wrong, many refuse that truth, that their action or lack of contributed to their situation-

It isn't my opinion that I'm sharing regarding that issue, it's factual-

rosecarmel….. Who are the many who forfeit what path?

Who choose the loop and over what?

What is the so called truth?

Lets not forget yours is only an opinion …… not the truth.

notonan2...….I've always found Smileless comments to be understanding and her advice to be full of compassion and common sense.

I really don't see any of the complaints you are making about her posts.

I don't understand why its necessary to create a combative stance.

To tell someone, anyone, that you love them but don't like them causes them harm- From a little to alot- It's like saying, "Sometimes I love you and sometimes I don't-" It's love with condition: Do things this way and I will love you and do it differently and I won't-

Over time some people are so hurt by being told such that a part of them becomes numb and as a result prevents themselves from fully loving any person in return, including themselves, because they have learned, because they have been taught, that love = hurt-

To them, love means being ashamed of themselves- And as they grow, since it's all they know, may fall prey to seeking the same in others- Never getting to know who they truly could be had they come from a place of being loved fully-

Many grandparents think that they did nothing to contribute to their current situation of estrangement- And I understand that- Because when something happens that stings beyond belief every fiber of a person's being wants to fight the pain- The body goes into an inner panic that eventually works it's way to the surface as hurt, disbelief, anger, tears and eventually denial -- because denial forms a cushion between the heart and the truth- It's a necessary function that protects the body from shock-

And that protective state of denial is where many grandparents that have been estranged remain -- which is also understandable- But it's a mistake, a perpetual loop from which there is no escape until working through the difficult truth-

But many forfeit taking that path, they choose to keep the loop and the perpetual pain while seeking out the same in others, to communicate, to be understood to feel supported- And that's where the buck stops, where they have a decision to make: after a period of mourning moving towards the truth and the taking of personal inventory or become absorbed into the cohesive views of the group as a new recruit where nobody contributed to their current state of estrangement-

Or did they?

Yes hopefull.. Awful situation. They say girls go through teenage years and come out better in later years but it's not always the case. I do feel so sad for you. I'm surplus to requirements too.

Just wanted to add that despite your terrible situation, what a lovely 'name' you've chosen hopeful1.

What a terrible thing for your own children to say hopeful1, I am sorry.

You say you loaned the money, do you have any proof that this money was a loan or did you trust them to repay the money at a later date?

I know that you're going to say you trusted them, why one earth wouldn't you trust your own children but thought I'd ask anyway.

"Surplus to requirement" yes it looks that way and is an all too familiar theme when talking about estrangement.

There is life after estrangement, not easy especially if you don't have someone in your life on a daily basis. Have you thought about joining any social groups in your area or maybe volunteering for an organisation that relies on unpaid help? That wont ease your financial worries but would get you out and meeting people.

My heart goe out to you, being estranged from both your D's, well I can't imagine how painful this must be. Being estranged from one son is bad enough.

JeM z I really feel for you having become estranged from both my daughters. Apparently they say their mother died the same day as their father. .. 12 years ago! I can't do anything right, I am not allowed to see the Grandchildren and if I call I have been told they will report me for harassment! All this after looking after the children for years and lending them all my money I had, which they now refuse to return. I am so low and depressed and broke... and as I dedicated all my time to babysitting and cleaning i dont have any friends either! Surplus to requirements I think is the cause!

ll perspectives are valid notanan but the ones that are unable to accept that there are estrangements where the P has done nothing to warrant such behaviour are unhelpful.

Nobody on this thread has claimed that. But I know that you will superimpose your narrative none the less.

The OP however may be more open than you to alternative points of view and as, once again: this isnt your thread, it may be useful to the OP to hear more than one perspective.

All perspectives are valid notanan but the ones that are unable to accept that there are estrangements where the P has done nothing to warrant such behaviour are unhelpful.

I really don't understand why you find it necessary to attack a poster who doesn't agree with you, to ridicule other threads that deal with estrangement by referring to them as "echo chambers" and accuse me of "trying to run off anyone with a differing POV to (me)".

I do not, and never have claimed to be a "resident estrangement expert" but I do have personal experience of estrangement and have been thanked by the OP of this thread for my input.

Smileless its not your thread, if it was I wouldnt bother, but its not! And your (narrow) perspective isnt the only possibility so stop trying to turn the OPs thread into an echo chamber like the ones you usually frequent. It might actually help the OP to hear some perspectives other than yours and ones that agree with you so quit trying to run off anyone with a differing POV to you. You may think you are a resident estrangement expert but you're just one very blinketed poster, and other perspectives are just as valid.

Sometimes it is best to step away for a while instead of constantly rerunning every interaction or conversation. Let the situation cool and get on with your life for a few weeks, then reassess.

notanan Are you not a nan?

I think you ought to stop this flippin' meaness notanan! You can't really know Smileless's family dynamics. Stop making it personal.

I very much doubt that notanan, if you were in any way familiar with my posts over the last 6 plus years, there's any way you would ever conclude "well! no wonder", unless of course you had a hidden agenda.

As I suspected, you are unable to substantiate your offensive claim that my posts "ooze with clues as to why" our son is estranged. You must be disappointed that you couldn't find any.

Indeed your judgement on my situation says all that needs to be said on your one sided view of estrangement.

There's no "missfortune of being on several threads where (I) have posted". I am drawn to them because I'm estranged; why are you drawn to them? You don't have to interact directly with me. You don't have to interact with me at all.

They way you describe the type of "love" you expect your ACs to settle for on this thread is no exception.

I hope they havent learnt from you to settle for not being liked/loved for who they are in other relationships (romantic, frienships etc...)