Narcissistic adult children

I had a lovely few hours got a couple of hugs, had lunch and a private chat about her and her husband, little by little she is learning to avoid aggressive verbal reactions when hubs arrives home after a long commute and a hard high octane day at work. She is learning to ignore the fact that he does not appear to help in the house as much as she would like. She is learning to appreciate that he does lots of jobs for her, that he has enabled her to get a property with a few acres for her horse, which many men would not do for their wives

All in all she is learning to cope and is learning coping mechanisms to at least make life nice for their small family. It helps all of them that they have moved to a very beautiful part of Wales from an area 10 miles away. It helps that they now have so many nooks and crannies of wild garden and paddocks that they can enter a small space alone, when they need space

She gave me her telephone number but only after she realised that something could have happened to me out in that wilderness. She asked me to come again and show them how to transplant and prune

I certainly feel happier, all of a sudden there seems to be some hope for their family to survive as a unit. So now I stand back again, no more e mails from me, apart from the thank you today. She knows that tranplants from my allotment need to be done in october. The ball is in her court again and I wait for another layer to be loosened

That's wonderful new craftyonekeeping everything crossed that it goes well.

It has worked, the various strategies of mine. I had an invitation to visit my dd tomorrow. I still don`t have a telephone number so hope I don`t get lost, they moved 4 months ago

Deb, I'm not sure how you know how much SIL is doing now that you and DH are out of the picture since you are, well, out of the picture and they have moved, etc. But clearly, he went along w/ the estrangement, etc. Generally speaking, I imagine spouses are often heavily influenced by the narcissist. After all, they live w/ the NPD person and are privy to their viewpoint every day, etc. In other cases, I suspect the spouse just goes along w/ the narcissist to "get along." Again, this is the person they live with, and often they are raising children w/ them, etc. My guess is their main goal in this is to protect the marriage/their family unit, not to discern the truth of the matter, etc. So they join in the CO, lies, if any, etc., even if, sadly, it regards their own parents, and even if it is totally unjust and unfair.

You are as unlucky being their friends as being their enemies because it amounts to the same thing.

Maybe in a way you are better being their enemy because as their friend you may never suspect them of being the source of your misfortunes (others falling out with you, problems at work etc)

Narcisists are as manipulative and destructive to the people they are "nice" to as to their "enemies"

So your SILs and ESs arent necessarily NPD themselves. Ppl with NPD use others as weapons to do their bidding.

Our ES behaves in exactly the same way as your s.i.l. Deb. We saw exactly the same behaviour in him, that you're seeing.

Joining in the gas lighting and the lies; oh yes. His wife is a narcissist and he's been affected so much by her that he's become a stranger to us.

I haven’t been following this closely as I’ve been trying to get my head around all that has happened over the past couple of months with having contact with the gc stopped and then them all moving out suddenly not telling us where they have gone as the scales fell from my eyes. But coming back to it and reading all the posts I wonder if you can help me answer a question that keeps popping into my head. I’m pretty sure my daughter Is a covert narcissist but cannot decide about her husband. Is he one too or is it just the effect of living with her that has affected his behaviour so strongly? He will never say no to her and does the bulk of the cleaning shopping childcare (now we are not there to do it) he will not wake her in the morning to have the kids as she wants to sleep. She spends all his money. But he joins in the gaslighting and the lies.
Can anyone’s experience help me decide? How does your son behave smileless? Does any of this sound familiar?

Isn't it awful that there are some people who actually don't want to be nice

Its a really shocking realisation for those of us who cant imagine being that way.

Its why we stay blind to it for too long..
Then go back for more..
Because we just dont want to believe that there arent at least missguided good intentions in there somewhere

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

You can think youre getting somewhere with them, finally connecting... but they are just "mining" for details and weaknesses to use against you or throw back in your face!

notanan2......I know that scenario of old! lol! You have my sympathy

Bordersgirl quite a few of those suggested responses would just fire up the ?narc I know!

I find it best not to share my views or emotions with them at all because they end up being used as weapons against me, or twisted and spread as "variations of the truth" gossip aimed at discrediting me in others eyes

Hi Bordersgirl I don't agree that the last 4 responses on your list are dismissive of the other person. Relationships are about all the people involved in that relationship, not just the needs and desires of one.

If it is necessary for you to take anti depressants in order to live with your H then clearly, this is a very unhealthy relationship for you to be involved in. Have you thought about contacting Relate? It's OK for you to go alone to discuss your problems and with the experience that this organisation has to offer, I'm sure you would find it useful.

I wish you luck.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bordersgirl, the first 4 on that list are good, but the second four are so dismissive of the other person. I wouldn’t suggest using them.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

It is shocking to desperately appeal to someone's humanity/conscience only to find that there is none there

I believe it to be true too notanan as we've seen it and it really does have to be seen to be believed and even then, you still hope that it's a bad dream that you'll wake up from.

Im not an expert its all stuff I have read online or experienced personally so dont take it as 100% fact its just what I believe to be true

Oh, overthehill, your post brought tears to my eyes. Hugs!

Smileless, your EDIL is unbelievable!

Interesting information, notanan!

Whereas people with BPD are fully aware that they are lying. And tell dufferent versions or different variations if the truth to different ppl

I still can't work out if they are so ill they actually believe themselves

I believe yes, personally.

When lying is your default it becomes your truth maybe?

notnan there you go again, confirming it! Bullying a co-worker until they left, yes, that happened too. Also 'making out they are the victim'. Oh yes, watched it all happen over and over again and also saw the people who were taken in by it all. Always alluded to the bad behaviour of others but never gave any actual examples and has managed to convince those on the fringe that they are the victim.

I still can't work out if they are so ill they actually believe themselves.

Must be so hard for the children of such a person. I imagine they think their life is normal but when they leave home they will realise what their parent is.

We spent months before the estrangement listening to her, backed up by our ES, telling us how she was being bullied beyond endurance by a co worker. Her oldest childhood friend told us once our estrangement had happened that it was her who was the bully.

Narcs genuinely do see themselves as the victims whenever others resist their manipulation or bad behaviour, so IMO whole heartedly see themselves as victims in scenarios where they are systematically targeting and bullying others.

And in fact, reporting their "targets" to HR for bullying can be their method of bullying! It makes people terrified to challenge or stand to them for fear of getting a bullying complaint on their HR record!