Narcissistic adult children

Maybe they're not happy Nonnie; not really.

It's all about total power and control. What's the point of winning a game when you cheated so you didn't really win? What's the point of having relationships when you have those people/that person in your life and they're unable to have any real autonomy? When they only ever present the face you want to see for fear of recriminations?

I hope that "the pendulum swing back the other way" for our GC's sake. It does worry me; I wonder what kind of young men they'll eventually become.

It would be lovely if they became like their father used to be; kind, caring, loving and considerate but I don't know if they see any of those qualities in him now. I can only hope and pray that although he no longer presents those qualities to us, they are and will always be there for his children.

Quite right notanan a rarely diagnosed disorder but not a rare one.

However when it comes to ACs with NPD, their blaming of family is unlikely to be wholely untrue as there is usually persistant childhood traumas (not isolated events) in people with NPD.

And as gasslighting is often a feature of NPD, people with the disorder can be experts at fooling professionals and getting their victim to look like the problem, and themselves the victim.

It has now appeared in fairly common usage which surprises me as it is a very rare personality disorder.

It is not a rare disorder, it is a rarely diagnosed disorder due to the nature of it. Someone with NPD is less likely to self present for diagnosis as someone with BPD so unless it is a consequential finding, it is rare for the person with the disorder to seek "help" with it.

Too true Smile but really hard to understand how it makes them happy. There are so many things happening these days which seem to encourage people to think only of themselves which does seem to make it worse. I hope I am still around when the pendulum swings back the other way.

Sadly Nonnie the words compromise and reciprocate aren't included in a narcissists vocabulary only total capitulation will do.

GoodM there is much in what you say but it feels rather hard to me. I have definitely compromised with my dignity and a little with my religion for the person my whole family believe to be narcissistic. It hasn't done any good but we did it because we hoped it would show a willingness to compromise and might be reciprocated. We were wrong.

These days children are influenced by more people and personality types than any other time in the history of mankind as a result of technology, and the internet of today is like yesterdays Madison Avenue advertisers of the 50's and 60's promoting perfection- Perfect family life, bodies, vacations etc .. In a nutshell, striving to perfectly promote "self"-

Namsnanny, I agree, for a relationship to work both parties have to compromise a bit in the usual course of living if they want a relationship.

That being said, I do feel there are things people should not have to compromise in order to have a relationship with someone else.

Morals, dignity, their beliefs and the like should never be something someone has to compromise to have a relationship with someone else. In fact, I would say that if you have to compromise one of these things in order to have a relationship it's probably best not to have a relationship at all.

I also firmly believe that raising one's children falls into the same category. The only person a parent must compromise with in regards to their children is the other parent.

This includes what their children are taught, how they spend their time and who is allowed to influence the children.

Sigh...

You know, they earn over £150 000 between them. So why did they move in with us??
To use us.

Hindsight, as always, is 20/20, Deb. So sorry it turned out this way. I feel for poor DS, too, caught in the middle like this. Glad he's able to keep you informed though. Hope you and DH can find some peace after D and SIL move (if they really do).

27.06-15.49 good mama...
I haven’t caught up on all the posts, but really i feel strongly about some of the things you have said.
Surely ac’s Have to Compromise too?
Sorry perhaps i miss read, but no one can expect one party to do all the leg work in a relationship.
Because then we are talking about narcissistic behaviour and as discussed, once someone shows this is their way of proceeding, it’s over!

Starlady you are so right about not recognising or understanding the red flags!
Her behaviour has become increasingly arrogant since she returned to work a year ago after maternity leave so I think you have a point there too.
They told our son they are moving into rented accommodation. We just hope they meant it.

Deb, I had not idea your ED was a surgeon! Wow! And she accomplished that despite being deaf! Kudos to her for that! And to you and DH for raising such a smart - and probably, very strong - human being!

Unfortunately, I think Meeyou may be right, that ED's controlling personality is related to her being a surgeon. NOT saying this about all surgeons, but IME, some of them think that since they save/improve lives, they have the right to run the lives of those around them. It may be a very natural reaction to the life-saving work they do. And since, well, I hope this isn't insensitive, but, no doubt, ED had an obstacle to overcome or learn to work around. So she may feel even more as if she "sets the standard" for everyone around her.

I'm so sorry her positive qualities don't extend to being kind and caring towards her parents or DH.

"I can now see I was given the silent treatment and belittled whenever I didn’t do enough in her eyes."

See, this ^ is what I meant earlier. Sometimes, there are red flags all along the way, but one just doesn't see them, or, as rosecarmel suggested, doesn't know what they mean.

Hugs!

You're welcome, GM and Nonnie.

Yes, Nonnie, I agree. Most GPs I know are wise enough not to interfere in their AC's & CIL's parenting methods even if they don't agree w/ them. They may share their concerns w/ other GPs (their friends), but they don't butt in. As said earlier, these kinds of forums tend to focus on the parent/GP or PIL/CIL relationships that are problematic.

I totally agree with you Nonnie. I’ve many friends who are grandparents, we all discuss things together and accept that many things are different for each generation. We talk but don’t involve ac.
I’m sure this is how it’s always been.
I find it very difficult to understand why my ad chose to convert one of our barns, live with us for 2 years if we were interfering gps.
But we still have been on the receiving end of awful narcissistic behaviour.

Thanks for the compliments but I really wasn't 'blowing my own trumpet' I was just stating it as it is and as my friends see it too.

Another couple of examples: we were at a party yesterday at the home of some GPs, their ACs were there and so were some of the adult GCs. They all help each other out in lots of ways and no one tells anyone what to do. They have had some issues in the family (haven't we all?) but they have worked together and been empathetic. My friend is still friends with her son's divorced wife.

Another friend who is the mother of an only child, an AD, so may possibly be likely to be controlling, isn't. She has a toddler gd who is being brought up very differently, very strict food regime, non-gender specific and in many ways rather over the top. She fits in entirely with the way her AD brings up the child but does sometimes talk about it to me and we simply accept that it is different.

All around me I see people accommodating their family's views. I don't recognise these awful controlling GPs, sorry. Of course I am sure there are a few but I think it uncommon.

Nonnie, you sound like a great mum, MIL, GM, etc! And it sounds as if you come from a wonderful family! I think my family is pretty great, too, overall, LOL! However, I remember parents, years ago, who were openly upset w/ their AC's choices, whether of spouse, lifestyle, or parenting methods, or all three. My own MIL clearly tried to change the way DH and I did some things w/ our kids. And she would use any strategy she could think of to do it - lecture, personal stories (there I didn't mind so much), ridicule (the most offensive, IMO), etc.

Also, I know people who get very upset when someone doesn't text back immediately, especially their AC. Ive seen it on sites like this and in real life. Their assumption is that people "always" have their phones w/ them, and "always" check them when they ring/beep/whatever. And their feeling is that "it only takes a minute" to give a reply, even if it's a brief, "TTYL" ("talk to you later"). Their complaint is they're sure their AC reply right away if it's "one of their friends or their spouse/SO." So they assume that the lack of an immediate reply to them must mean they are a low priority for their AC. The fact that their AC might be busy w/ their kids or in a work meeting, etc., doesn't cross their minds. And so, their feelings are hurt. Fortunately, you and I aren't like that, but some people are.

Actually, I admit, Ive noticed that DD will almost always answer texts from SIL immediately. Not so much when I text her, LOL! So even I can see where it looks as if there's a priority thing involved. But hey, SIL SHOULD be her priority, IMO. It's normal and healthy, I think, for me not to be so high on the list anymore.

Thank you Starlady.

Truth be told, social media is not my favorite. I have found it to cause a lot more hurt feelings than good feelings. So I pretty much avoid it!

But I am aware these are the times and it’s not going away.
Hopefully we’ll all figure it out together.

Awesome post, GM!

The comments about pictures and social media especially caught my attention. You're right, these are new issues, and for that reason, I think we all have to realize that we are all still learning. So, IMO, parents need to be tolerant if a GP shares a photo the parents would prefer they didn't, and GPs have to grin and bear it if they see pix on the young parents' pages of events they (the GPs) weren't invited to. Most likely, the GP was just proudly showing off their GC the way they would have years ago if they were given some wallet photos. And, most likely the parents were just sharing the joys of a special day and didn't mean to hurt the GPs.

Granted, if the GP continues to share GC photos after being asked not to, that's a problem. And it's no different than doing anything else w/ their GC that the parents asked them not to do. Even though the Internet is still fairly new, IMO, a GP should realize that repeating this will cause trouble.

I'm not so sure what I think about the social media issue. Surey, most of us have been taught not to talk about a party in front of those who were not invited. And posting pix of it if the uninvited party can see them is about the same thing. But it's very common for people to post pix of fun events in their lives, etc.

IMO, this is a harder problem to solve than that of GP sharing photos. Should the parents stop posting pix of events where the GPs weren't included? Should they only avoid posting pix where one set of GPs were included but not the other? Should they block the excluded GPs altogether? Should they take time to limit certain pix to certain viewers (I know this can be done on FB, not sure about other sites)? If GPs are excluded a lot, should they just avoid looking at their AC's/CIL's photos? IDK, but it definitely is a new issue that can cause tensions.

You are reasonable yet again Nonnie, like I said previously, I think you are most likely a wonderful Mom, MIL and grandmother. I doubt any of this applies to you

Stella thanks for that, I think it makes sense and it probably accounts for the one I know.

Deb sorry to hear that and I do understand it very well because you have described the person I know so well. I am very lucky that it is not one of my dils.

GoodM sorry but I feel I have to discuss some of what you say while agreeing with much of it.

"I think there is a natural conflict between generations, those who have "been there and done that" and want to share their experience and believe that those who follow behind them should listen to their point of view". I don't think this applies to me or those I know. We only share our experience when asked for it.

"So, when calls are not picked up or text messages are not immediately returned feelings get hurt. Just like we get irritated when people call us often when we believe they know we are busy (working, dinner time, kids bath time, etc)." Sorry but again I simply don't get this. My feelings are not hurt when I don't get an instant reply, why would they be? I never call mine unless I need an urgent response so this simply doesn't happen. If I called they would pick up straight away because they would know it matters. It is obvious to me that they lead very busy lives so we leave it to them to contact us and they do.

Why would anyone share anything intimate on SM? I doubt anyone I know would identify me from my posts here. I choose my Facebook friends but only post things of general interest, family stuff we share on WhatsApp.

Yes, I think any discussion about GC is best done in person. My dil's mother and I do discuss our GC and of course agree that they are better than anyone else's but we also discuss how different things are today to when it was us but we would never share these discussions with our AC! Indeed we come from different countries so there are probably more differences than for others.

In summary I think that if each one shows empathy most of these things can be dealt with in a reasonable way but, if one person is determined to 'be right in all circumstances' or look for trouble there is no way to deal with it.

There is a big different between a a Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and having narcissistic traits. NPD is rare of course, but it does seem that many millennials (including my own adult children) have narcissistic traits. As a Psychologist, I have spent a lot of time considering this. The conclusion I’ve come to is that it does result from their up-bringing insofar as, in the 1970s and before, children’s wishes tended to come secondary to those of the parents. From approximately the 1980s, children were mostly placed on pedestals. Our little Prince’s and Princesses grew up to feel that they are as wonderful and special as we told them they were. Of course we didn’t appreciate that they would become most affronted when the pedestal wasn’t there for them any longer. I have seen my own children’s narcissistic traits in relation to friends, boyfriends etc, but at that time, I still saw them as my wonderful, perfect children. As adults, they turned it on me. I have one out of three who does not have narcissistic traits. Nature plays a part, some genotypes will be more likely to develop that way than others, and to be fair, my oldest was born in the mid ‘70s and was not as ‘spoilt’ in the early years when I was very young, and parenting advice was different. At least we expected our children to be polite, behave reasonably in public and have half decent table manners, looking at the way so many children behave in restaurants now, it seems the pedestals have got taller. Our children won’t be the last generation where narcissistic traits are common.

(I'm so sorry for what you've been through Deb, I didn't post that joke to make light of it)