Narcissistic adult children

Your post brings into sharp focus the powerless position that GP's find themselves in when they're denied contact with their GC Frogsinmygarden.

Even with a contact order granted by the Courts, we remain totally dependent on the co operation of our GC's parents, and as you have found, there are many ways that parents can thwart contact which can, and in your situation sadly has, resulted in you still being denied that relationship.

You say "he mourns not having his parents now"; I hope in the future he doesn't find himself mourning for one of his own children and GC because an AC of his, following his example, estranges his/her parents and takes away his GC.

Sparkling as you've said, we have worked long and hard almost 8 years now, to reclaim our lives. We knew we had little chance of being successful had we gone to court because we'd never had an established relationship with our then only GC. We were never given that chance and he was less than a year old when the estrangement happened.

That said, being aware of how difficult it is for GP's to succeed in the court process and then knowing how easily parents can still prevent contact taking place, going to court was discounted almost as quickly as it was considered.

I firmly believe that the only way to win the game of a narcissist is to stop playing. For us that meant watching our son and his narcissistic wife walk out of our lives with our only GC.

Crafty one, can't say I know anything about a Narcissist, so I will watch the video you suggested. I do think reading your post, a lot of lives are on hold almost hoping for them to change. I think that's a hard call, people are kind and caring by nature. What Smileless has done is reclaim her and husbands lives, I bet that really gets to Dil. It's their way of no way.
I do hope you come to a better place with your daughter, must be so much harder in these times, particularly when you live alone.

Our EAS is a narcissistic personality. He has one ambition in life: control. He is managing (even through we have successfully been granted a Court Order to see our Granddaughters) to keep them from us. Can someone please tell me what is the point of the court process to gain Grandparental access when the parents can so easily thwart it? We have been to court 4 times, spent money with gay abandon and had our lives and mental health shredded and for what?? What exactly IS the point? EAS is in serious need of mental help. He not only thinks nothing of destroying our lives but that of everyone around him. His weak willed wife goes along with everything he says/ does. But what she doesn't know is that he was emailing his friends (now ex friend) wife asking her to meet up for "fun". He really has no redeeming features at all. He has even estranged his own sister with all the disgusting lies and things he's said in court. Apparently he "mourns not having parents" now. Ha! Unfortunately he has never learned 'you reap what you sow'. He is no longer a son of ours. He is dead to us. Our grandchildren are not and one day they will know EVERYTHING. I will make sure of it.

thanks @Smileless I am pretty sure my DiL1 was also a narc and totally turned my son against us. Unfortunately she wears the trousers in their relationship and has always despised us.

When you look at the list of narcissistic personality traits, we all have some of them the difference being that we don't have all of them, and those we do have aren't anything like the extent we see in narcissists.

I've also found that understanding what defines a narcissist and how they function, has helped both me and Mr. S. deal with what's happened because of ES's wife.

What ever helps you not feel so broken hearted is a good thing.

When I had psychology for some damaging behaviour from my Mother, it came out that she was almost certainly a narc. It all makes so much sense and I have been able to study narcissism and find strategies to help me deal with her behaviour as well as learn its the personality disorder speaking. It helps me not feel so broken hearted.

I am pretty sure my ES have it and I was attracted to an abusive narc who is their Dad. I feel like I'm calling everyone a narc, but having had extensive psychology for the damage and having studied narcissism, I don't think I am one. But I maybe do have narcisisstic tendencies I am not aware of???

I'm sorry to hear that crafyone. You were so looking forward to it. I hope you wont have to wait too long before the visit is re arranged.

I had an appointment to visit dd last week, she e mailed the day before said she had to do a course for work, so that was that, no more communication and now I have to stand back again and wait

Welcome, Sjlll! My heart aches for you! I'm glad you found us and feel free to vent here. No doubt, you will get a lot of support.

It sounds as if there has been trouble in your family, unfortunately, for a long time. Your D has been difficult for a long time. Your ESDs (estranged stepdaughters) have "despised (you) for 25 years," for whatever reason. And your ES (estranged son) is bipolar, sadly, which I'm sure impacts his behavior towards you.

I'm horrified by D's stealing and her nasty vilification of you to everyone she could think of! Is it possible she is still "drinking" and "drugging" and that's what is causing this awful behavior? I'm no expert, but Ive heard drug addicts are very dishonest and will do just about anything to get money for their habit. That doesn't make this any easier for you and DH, I realize... sigh...

But I'm a little confused... after that, do you still see D's kids "every 2-3 months?" If so, I'm glad, but I know there must be tension between the adults.

Did the ones who say they "can't trust" you w/ their kids give any reasons? Don't get me wrong, I don't think you're untrustworthy w/ kids, I'm just wondering what in the world they could have said, especially after they have relied on you so much in the past.

I'm glad you have one DS (dear son) who is such a joy. And I'm glad there are other parents and kids who think so highly of you. Please focus on enjoying them, more than hurting over the estranged ones.

Please don't blame all millennials for your estranged AC's behavior though. There are narcissists and people w/ biplolar disorder in every generation. And remember, your DS and those other parents are millennials, too.

My bipolar son has a fraternal twin and is one of the Joy's in my life. He is 29 now and was always ostracized by his brother, sister and most of the time by his stepsisters and still is. They always thought him to be "different" and actually I suppose they were correct....he has the soul of a baby boomer not a millennial.

Playing the victim is one of the things narcissists do best Sj. Playing the part of the victim, telling everyone who'll listen how horrible the person/people they've designated as their enemy and abuser is.

They do all that they can to turn others against you and generally speaking, those that fail to go along with them become the narcissists enemy too.

There was a time when we thought we would lose our other son too. Thank God he saw what was going on before it was too late.

Thank you so much for responding and sharing. While misery loves company, I am deeply saddened that you or anyone else has to live with these issues.

We were able to see my daughter's and stepdaughters's children prior to the discovering the stolen stolen money issue. But once we confronted her she started playing the part of victim and contacted my friends, former friends, inlaws and anyone who would listen to tell them what a horrible person I was. Typical narcissist behavior is to turn as many people against you as possible. It works well for them. It seems to be just me she is attacking.
She was always a challenge after hitting her teen yesrs...drinking, drugging lying. She ran away once then talked her father into taking me to court for custody and after that she did not talk to me for a couple years until she got engaged for the first time. I always knew something was wrong but couldn't give it a name. She refused to stay in counseling long enough for a professional to diagnose her.

Morning Sj I've just re read your post as there was so much there to digest.

I'm so sorry for your situation. We've been estranged from our youngest son and only GC for almost 7 years. We last saw the eldest at 8 months and have never seen the youngest.

My heart goes out to you and all GP's who have lost their GC having got to know them, love them and built a relationship with them. For those children too, who can no longer spend time with the GP's they love.

We believe our ES's wife to be a narcissist and sadly he is influenced, manipulated and controlled by her; that said, ultimately he is responsible for his decision to cut us out of his and his children's lives.

You say everything was OK with your narc. D until you found she'd been stealing from you. Had you seen any narc. traits in her before that time?

Has she estranged her entire family or just you and your DH?

I was shocked to read that having been custody of your GS by his father, that the courts enabled him to take him away from you and despite your given right to see him, are prevented from doing so.

I'm so sorry for you, your H and your GS.

Some things I inadvertently left out of my looong story.
Everything was ok between my narcissistic daughter and I until my husband and I discovered that she had been stealing cash, blank checks, made bank. Cash withdrawals and stolen credit card withdrawals for a total of over $25,000.we had to file bankruptcy. My husband and I confronted and she of course blamed it on her bipolar brother and starting making up horror stories about me to anyone who would listen. Typical of her personality disorder.

There is nothing wrong with you Sj.

You're feeling what we all feel when our adult child(ren) estrange themselves from us and take away our GC.

You've been through and continue to go through a terrible time and I'm glad that you've found somewhere to unburden.

It's getting late so I'm off to bed but I'll post on here again tomorrow. I didn't want you to do the same and think that no one would respond.

Others will I'm sure and we'll do what we can to help and support you. .

Hello, I am new to this forum and have never been apart of any type of forum before. I sought one that would allow me to vent about my estrangement to my children, step children and ultimately my grandchildren. If I am not in the appropriate forum, I trust someone will let me know.
My story is long but the 'Readers Digest' version is as follows:
My 2 stepdaughters loved me and spent most of their time at my home with my 3 children. They were 14 & 12 when I married their father and they have dispised me for 25 years. I still do not know why. They each have 2 children and the oldest child of each was allowed to stay overnights with us starting when they were 5 &7. They adored us and we them. Now the stepdaughters say "I can't be trusted" with the younger children now ages 6 &8.
My daughter is the definition of a narcissist. She now has 4 children which I have to make an appointment to see about every 2-3 months. She had moved in with us on 3-4 occasions (the birth of 3 of her children) at which time I was in charge of caring for the children. Even when we allowed her to move into our rental home, I raised her children. She also says I can not be trusted with her children.
My son is bipolar. He was just out of prison and living with us when he and his girlfriend had a son who I was in charge of caring for. When my son and his girlfriend moved out they both sign guardianship to me. This grandson was 4 when they left him. When this grandson was 7 my son took me to court and got him back. He immediately took him off needed medication, does not allow him to associate with other children, no activities, took him out of school (1st grade) and we are not allowed to see him even though it is court ordered. Whew! I feel a bit better that someone besides my husband will know my story but..... here is the kicker.
I am a retired registered nurse and have been a licensed child care provider for the last 5 years. I have 8 little ones who I adore and all have been known to cry when they have to go home. The mom's &/or dad's will let no one else care for their children and I have a long waiting list.
What is wrong with me?

It'll be 3 years in just under 2 months since we moved here AnnaNimmity and not once have we regretted our decision.

As Starlady has posted it should be possible for you to find out where your ES is living, so finding them as your neighbours wouldn't be an issue. Is there no one you know who knows where they have moved too and could tell you the area so you could avoid it?

I hope you'll let us know how your meet up with your D goes next week craftyone, it's always good to hear of broken relationships being repaired.

Welcome, AnnaNimity! My heart goes out to you! Glad you came in to share your issues w/ us, though, and that my post helped.

Since DIL seems to suffer from NPD and MH issues perhaps all ES' energy is taken up in coping w/ that? Maybe he has none left for dealing w/ other relationships, even w/ his mum/you? Could that be part of the problem?

I take it they have cut off contact w/ you, sadly. So it doesn't surprise me that they moved w/o giving you an address (sigh). Like Smileless, I think it's odd, though, that they are stalking you despite having cut you off. So I'm going to echo her question, how do you know they're stalking you? And I'll add, do you have any idea why?

I totally get your concerns about moving and finding out they're your neighbors. Yes, they would proybably be upset, but please remember, it would be their fault for not having given you an address. You probably can find out where they live, however (not impossible, given the Internet). But what a burden to have to think about that on top of all else that goes w/ moving!

Regardless, when ou do move, I hope you will enjoy your new home. And I hope things are eventually resolved w/ ES and DIL.

Great news, Crafty! Glad to hear your tactics are working and DD are making progress! Also glad she agreed to another visit even though you asked for it this time. Since your "no contact" method was working, I would hold off on asking again after this and go back to letting her make the overtures. Otherwise, I'm afraid she might get nervous and pull away again.

Glad her marriage seems to be doing better, too. Is it possible that one of the reasons she pulled away in the past was that there were issues between her and SIL? Sometimes, I've noticed, problems between parent and AC reflect issues in the AC's marriage.

I'm wondering about the comments about her needing to be quiet when this/that behavior of SIL bothers her. Why can't she express her feelings? Why does she need to keep her concerns bottled up? I don't understand that part.

Regardless, I hope you have a lovely visit next week and that things continue to improve.

That's great craftyone. I hope you enjoy your cuppa with your D next week.

Peeling layers is working, I am keeping a low profile but now have another invite to go to theirs next week on her day off work. I asked to go there this time but took all pressure off by saying I would only be staying for a cuppa. Best of all, I e mailed yesterday, I had suggested tomorrow and honestly thought I would again hear nothing. There is an e mail back today with an emoji heart, she cannot do tomorrow but (this is the breakthrough) she suggested her day off next week instead [smile}

hello Anna, keep hope in your heart. I realised that layers had been added because she was worse after her baby was born and much worse after her dad died. I realise that as they go on so they can be peeled away and that is what I am working on. I use the no contact tool, so that she has to make more effort and in the meantime, I get peace of mind. It will probably take my lifetime but she listens to my advice, to know that no marriage is perfect, that it is not a natural thing to live with one person for the whole life. That men need caves

Welcome AnnaNimmity In our experience the partner of someone with NPD learns to adjust to the situation to the extent that as with our ES, they're prepared to go as far as cutting out their own family. This appears to be the case with your son, I'm so sorry.

How do you know they're stalking you? That's very strange isn't it.

First post, recently joined and unfortunately I fit into the same category so hope you don't mind if I join the conversation?

craftyone...Like so many other's I still long for that day although not holding my breath, but you have to remain hopeful.

Starlady ...your most recent reply answered a question I've had for a long time and that is does someone 'acquire' NPD or do they learn or adjust to those traits. I never thought about ES as being NPD but his DW most definitely is, along with other MH and MPD as diagnosed professionally.

Like craftyone, they have moved house and I don't have a clue where they live these days, actually I'm wanting to move house myself and will need to check and double-check that they don't live next door or down the street as you can imagine how they would react if I suddenly moved to the same neighbourhood. However they still stalk me on a regular basis, so they are keeping tabs on what I do.

Truly hope things improve for other GP's.

That's great news craftyoneand will certainly have helped to put your mind at rest.