Shut down threats of estrangement

"Hopefully most cut offs aren’t forever. Just long enough for heads and hearts to heal and for the offender to realize what they permanently lose by continuing their behavior."

On another site - MN, I think - Ive seen this referred to as a "time out" (TO) or a "break." So, I agree, just b/c AC/CIL go NC doesn't necessarily mean it's forever. In fact, if it were the first time, I wouldn't worry too much (I don't think though I haven't been there, fortunately). If it were the 2nd or 3rd time, then I would be more concerned that "this time" it may be "permanent." But I hope I'd make whatever changes I needed to make after the 1st time, so it wouldn't happen again (if I were at fault).

Starlady, regarding the red flags, the other day I was driving down the road, my son was on the passenger side- I saw something that appeared to be in the road ahead- An object that I couldn't identify with certainty but guessed deer- As we got closer I thought perhaps a broken mailbox or mailboxes (the roadside type)- Once upon it enough to see it, realized it was a deer- It wasn't until we were upon it that my son spoke up and said he thought it was a person or pieces of wood that fell off of a truck-

Sometimes people see red flags but can't identify them as such- They see something but don't know what it is- Others see it too- But it doesn't get discussed-

A woman I knew had been estranged from her mother for decades- But when her mother became ill she re-entered her life- No lengthy discussion was engaged in- One of them finally asked what happened between them? Both expressed that they didn't know, so "don't know" was accepted as the answer to their long-lasting estrangement- They proceeded forward from that point-

I'm estranged from my own mother- I see why- I chose to remain a part of her life, although distanced- I've no desire to control the course of action she chose because I understand why she chose it, so an explanation isn't necessary- Also, she is now 100 years old and I wouldn't even consider initiating a difficult discussion with her- But none of that stops me from wishing that those discussions were had!

Personally, I would much rather shoulder the responsibility of my own actions, to have those actions be made known by way of open communication with my family members-

Sara65, I think every case is unique, each presenting its own set of problems and possibilities- I don't think I planned on not talking to my mother- It just happened- I didn't plan on not talking to her again either- During the years of estrangement we both changed- When we reunited our relationship was different- The emotional distance grew, meaningful discussions simply didn't occur, she'd pontificate in a very general way, addressing everyone in the room- Which is something she continues to do- I guess she felt she covered all her bases that way, instead of speaking to each person individually, engaging in meaningful conversations - It provides her the space to maintain her denial- And connsidering the trauma she endured, I accept the relationship for what it is- Distant-

Great explanation of not seeing red flags, rosecarmel!

About your mum - so, IOWs, you're reconciled but VLC (very low contact)? I'm glad you're not totally CO, but sorry it has never gotten better than it is. Good that you have come to terms w/ it though.

I'm glad that your handling of the threats of estrangement worked for you Mebster. To threaten estrangement due to a perceived offence is emotional blackmail that casts a menacing shadow over the relationship and future time spent together.

A great post rosecarmel about red flags, which got me thinking 'when is a red flag, a red flag'.

As our ES's wife's pregnancy advanced, our relationship with her changed. The closeness that we'd shared began to diminish; was that a red flag?

Within weeks of our first GC's birth we were all too aware that our presence, once enjoyed was merely being tolerated; another red flag?

We asked our son if everything was OK, if there was anything we could do or stop doing. He told us that they just needed space; OK not a problem. We stepped back but our contact with him, his wife and our little GC became increasingly sparse; another red flag?

When our GC was just 6 months old and we were yet to have developed any kind of a relationship with him as we saw so little of him, we received an email from our ES saying they needed to continue with the space they were getting, we weren't to worry as he was just a baby and there would be plenty of times for us to do things together. He also said that they would never stop us from seeing him as they knew how much we loved him.

Was that a red flag? Yes, with hindsight we can see that it was because 2 months later when he was just 8 months old we were cut out.

We were told we were no longer a part of our son's and his son's lives and were to stay away.

Smileless

You really couldn’t have seen this coming

How awful to feel you had a warm and close relationship with your son and daughter in law, and be looking forward to the birth of your grandchild, and have them cut you off like they have

What on earth can have happened to provoke such an extreme reaction?

Smileless2012 your post made my blood run cold. Just awful.

Agree with Gonegirl

I felt the same

Its aften not until people face parenthood themselves that they really reflect on their own relationships with their parents.

Or not until they join their inlaws family or make a new family with a partner that they think about the dynamics in the family they grew up in, and whether those relationships are/were nourishing or detrimental.

Before those events, its easy to plod along....

A bit like how you can get into a pattern of plodding along with a "frenemy" until some other life event or change happens which in turn highlights how little you actually enjoy the friendship!

Or like how a change of location, career, weight, health, new friends etc often is the catalyst to making a break from a romantic relationship that you suddenly realise you have only been "tolerating" for years.

New partners and new babies are massive catalysts and times of reflection. They shine a new light on problems you may have been ignoring for years!

There is a tendancy I think for estranged GPs to think that because an estrangement coincided with a new partner, that it was DRIVEN by the new partner, which in a handful of cases would be true, but more likely: having a good new relationship makes it harder to ignore bad ones.

If you knew then what you know now, Smileless, you might have suspected that estrangement might soon occur. But maybe not b/c AC/CIL needing "space" doesn't necessarily translate into a CO if the parents/PILs step back the way you and Mr. S. did. So, no, chances are, you couldn't have seen it coming. Not all "red flags" are bright red, IMO. Sometimes, I think they're easier to see in hindsight (sigh).

Notanan, that's an interesting point. I can think of a couple of relationships that changed my standards and made it harder for me to accept certain flaws my parents had. Don't get me wrong. My parents didn't have horrendous faults, nothing I would even think of cutting them off for, surely. But other interactions did make me see some things differently.

That can work in favor of parents, too. My parents always made me feel as if I could be whatever I wanted and never suggested that being a girl was a barrier of any kind. As a kid, I really didn't appreciate that b/c I assumed all parents were that way. It wasn't till I was in my teens that I became aware that some parents told their DDs they couldn't be this or could only join this/that profession b/c of their gender. Seeing that, I became very proud that my parents were so open-minded on this issue.

Yes I see that, these events cast a spotlight. Some people gain a new appreciation for their parents/up bringing once they have children of their own, for others it goes the other way.

I have a few friendships that I let go once I had my children. It was one thing to put up with "takers" when it was just me it affected..... but when you are explaining to your DD who was all excited for "aunty" X's visit that she didnt show up for the weekend as expected because they obviously had a better last min offer as she is known to do..... nah! Not okay any more!

& then there are other people I grew closer due to major life events!

Notanan2, excellent points and well stated.

I just think that we give it a name, where in the past people just stopped talking or seeing each other. My two sisters didn't speak for 30 years ( it only ceased when one of them died). That started because one thought the other one was trying to steal her boyfriend . Nobody called it "going no contact", it was just something which happened. Very annoying for everyone else since we had to arrange family events with only one of them attending . It was hard on my parents !

I think world events and trends have influenced estrangement- Currently perhaps it's being promoted and encouraged yet being presented as a "new" approach to age old issues that have plagued us since forever- Think of all the single parents whose spouse just up and left- The great depression and the world wars I'm sure created infinite situations and opportunity for people to up and leave-

I’ve got a friend from Sheffield, she’s one of a twin, and has two other sisters, they have the most heated rows, when I first witnessed one of their arguments, I thought that would be that, there would be no going back, but the next day, it was if nothing had happened, I was impressed!

She said they know they all love each other, whatever’s said, they don’t take it to heart.

Over the years they’ve always been there for each other, they’re a very close family, and I don’t think anyone would be given the option of going no contact, they’d just be worn down by lots of loving aunties and cousins.

I think young families these days, tend to want to isolate themselves, which I do understand, but sometimes the help, love and wisdom of the wider family can be very beneficial

I don't understand how anyone can just cut someone off, unless there has been abuse or neglect. Every mother I have met has loved their children, but some did made mistakes, yet did their best at the time. People are so quick to judge any shortcomings without knowing the full facts. If there is a problem, talk about it, you can limit the time with someone that gets on your nerves without abandoning them.sometimes it is easier to get on with one child more than the other, but you love them the same. Can the person severing contact honestly bear close scrutiny and not made mistakes. More kindness and understanding and less judgement.

Very well said Peony.

Peony
What to do if parents say they were not abusive/neglectful but their AC say they were?
This is plenty of times the case

Beautiful post, Peony!

But not all COs are about mistakes the parents made when their kids were growing up. Often, they're about mistakes the parents are making now, such as trying to control their AC's/CIL's marriage or parenting.

Personally, I wouldn't want to go totally NC for that reason. I loved my parents and I know DH loved his, and I can't imagine doing that to people you (general) love. But if it were today, I would have cut back my contact w/ my bossy MIL. DH could make his own decision, of course, and I would not have tried to stop her seeing the GC. But I would have taken myself out of the equation more often.

Very true Starlady, the first option surely with family should be a bit of distancing to see if that eases things, if not, a proper open discussion about solutions. Agreeing to disagree about things rather than I’m right/you’re wrong scenario. Then, and only then, consider NC as a last resort.

I don't understand how anyone can just cut someone off

Some people just shouldnt be in relationships with each other, and persisting is just picking a scab/poking the bear.

This is as true of family as it is of friends and romances.

Mothers are just people.