Shut down threats of estrangement

When Mr. S. went for his vasectomy I had to go with him and say that I was in agreement. That was a long time ago, and maybe things have changed.

I remember us being asked, 'don't you want a daughter (we had 2 boys), and how would we feel if we lost one of them, wouldn't we want to try for another; like a lost child can be replaced.

I look back at that and think of the irony. 25 years later, we lost our youngest son due to estrangement.

I’m betting Mr S had a Very forward thinking doctor, and is one of the very few who had to do that.

Most men have no issue other than wait time to be sterilized, where as many women cannot get it done for love or money.

Got a lot to say for someone who’s notanan ??

I have to say I had no idea that it's so difficult for women to be sterilized. Does that just apply to single women and/or women who haven't had any children? Not that that would be right of course.

You could be right Summerlove; we assumed that I had to give my consent as his wife.

It really depends on the doctor, but most won’t unless a woman is over a certain age, or has had three children.

Some won’t even with those items in play.

The only women I know who were allowed sterilisations had had very high risk pregnancies and births, and were told by doctors that more pregnancies were ill advisable.

Women it seems arent just allowed to say I definitely dont want (more) children that doesnt seem to be the valid rationalle for sterilisation that it is for men!

How odd that a woman has the right to choose abortion, but not the right to choose sterilization. It suggests that the Powers That Be still don't get the idea of a woman having control over her own body and reproductive organs.

But back to the idea of shutting down threats of estrangement. As I said earlier, I don't like threats. And I agree that it's wrong for AC/CIL to throw this threat at the GPs whenever they're trying to get something they're not entitled to, such as money or childminding. Or if they say it over "every little thing" just as a way to shut the GPs up, etc. But if they're saying, in effect, "if you don't follow our rules for our children" or "if you don't stop trying to get us to change our lifestyle," or point to some other repeated offense, then IMO, that's a somewhat different story.

Maybe they still shouldn't threaten. But my concern is that if the GPs ignore the complaint and just focus on shutting down the threat, the AC/CIL may feel that's it, they're done, and just cut the GPs off. (NOT saying that this was the situation in your case, Mebster, just speaking in general). For example, if the AC says, "If you tell us what to do one more time, we're done, you'll never see these GC again!" that's awful! But if the GPs respond to the threat only, as in, "Don't threaten us!" the AC may feel the GPs have not heard the message that came w/ the threat, the concern about the GPs trying to run their lives or whatever. And so, the AC might just stop threatening and make the CO. For this reason, I would be very careful about how I shut down the threat and make sure to acknowledge the complaint and promise to change the offending behavior if I could, etc.

I agree starlady

I think it can sometimes not be so much a "threat" though as a cack handed way of expressing being at the end of their teather.

If you "shut down" the threats you effectively are shutting down communication, and when people think there is no longet any point in trying to talk to you, that is when NC may feel like the only option to them.

I think it is important to try to listen to the feelings behind the words. The words may be badly chosen, but what is going on behind them? Why are they "threatening" desperate measures?

When our boys were little, my m.i.l. used to give them tomato sauce sandwiches (yuk); allow them to have their pet rabbits running lose around our living room, even though she knew I never did; let them stay up late. I could go on but basically she rarely followed the rules that she knew we had.

Yes, I frequently got to the end of my tether, Mr. S. and I both knew it would take at least a couple of days to calm them down and bring them back into line after just one sleep over.

Non contact. You wont see your AC, maybe never again. You wont see your GC, maybe never again. Why? Not because you are a physical or emotional threat, but because you wont follow the rules!!

Then don't let the GP's have the GC unless you're there. Don't allow them to have sleep overs or take their GC out for the day but no contact for goodness sake.

It's not rocket science is it? It can be managed but if you can't be bothered to manage it, if your own parents aren't worth the effort it may take and using your children, their GC as the ultimate weapon by threatening to take them away is all you can muster then your parents may well be better off without you.

You cannot "manage" another adult's behaviours.

Smileless

I agree that all these things can be managed, I doubt there are many of us who haven’t ranted and raved about our in-laws at some point, but mostly they are well meaning, so you accept it to some extent

But if you are constantly struggling to have any sort of relationship, if the problems go back to childhood, if you think that the relationship you have with your mother makes you the sort of person you don’t want to be, then maybe it’s time to put an end to it

Yes I agree Sara but my post was in reference to some GP's behaviour toward their GC that the children's parents find annoying and/or unacceptable, not to issues that go back to childhood.

But if someone can not respect your basic requests for your child that eats away at you. You don’t enjoy the time with them because you are permanently having to watch them.
If you don’t enjoy something. Why do it?
Life is way to busy now. Most people I know rarely get family time. So they wouldn’t want to waste it.

And you might be a grandparent one day and they might feel the same about you..... would you be as blithe then?

Would I disrespect my child’s instructions and be blade about their parenting choices?
No.

Smileless, it sounds like your MIL got great joy out of purposely disrespecting you.

That’s not something most young families will put up with now, nor should they.

People who can’t respect parental rules are not usually safe child minders.

If I only had a finite amount of time with my children because of school and work commitments, I would not want to spend three days trying to get them back onto routine after a sleepover. That doesn’t sound at all in anyone’s best interest except mother-in-law’s.

There is a difference between someone who is well meaning and gets it wrong. And someone who deliberately undermines you.

E.g. if you say "oh they can eat anything but X" and then they go out of their way to get X and make a big deal about proving you wrong as soon as you collect "well they ate X from ME and it was fine with ME"

There's a gulf between the two

True notanan

My mother in law fell into the former, but it was still bloody aggravating at times!

Mine too things like leaving scalding hot drinks in reach of toddlers.. that sort of thing, but genuine mistakes. Drove me barmy but less of an issue as the kids got bigger. There was never an inch of malice.

Whereas someone else would do the exact same actions but with malace to "teach" the childrens mother a lesson or to bait her to look neurotic on front of others knowing it upsets her so doing it deliberately in company so they can laugh and call her "silly" etc to others

Its not the type of food, or the hot drinks, or the pets let in or the bedtime missed, its more about how and why it is done!

A lot of NC folks seem to feel that ‘family’ means them and their children - no grandparents, aunts and uncles, siblings, cousins. So how would they feel about being excluded by their own children on that same basis regardless of whether it was respectful/reasonable/warranted - I’ve yet to receive a straight answer from any forum where these NC devotees lurk.

Pantglas.

I have no contact with my mother, but I’d be devastated, and unbearably sad if this happened to me and any of my children, I hope I never do anything to warrant it.

I’m never convinced that things are totally one sided , unless you’re dealing with a real nasty hard faced bitch, I doubt seriously that many people take this step lightly, because once taken, it would be very hard to go back

In my own situation, my children have never been asked to take sides, even my husband still visits her

I do understand your circumstances Sara65 but it’s not the outcast parent who gets to decide if NC is ‘warranted’..... that’s the bit that’s so incomprehensible about the whole scenario.

I’ve known kids who had horrendous upbringings who don’t hold it against their parents and I’m also aware of children who were cherished turning against theirs for trivial, inflated to justify the act of NC reasons, or even no reason at all, purely because they can. They know they wouldn’t be happy if the shoe was on the other foot but just won’t admit it.

I get what you mean Pentglas, I can see it must be upsetting beyond belief!

I can only speak about my own circumstances, but I don’t think she’s been overly bothered by it, she hasn’t really made any attempt to contact me, or acknowledge my birthdays, she told my husband if I didn’t visit her, she’d cut me out of her will, and that just goes to show how little she knows me

Correct me if I am wrong Sara65 but your case is different in that you haven’t stopped your mother having contact with your family, only you? That’s so much less drastic than most cases of NC where not even a birthday card is allowed for a grandchild let alone a visit.

It appears that your mother is relatively happy with the NC between you which is usually not the case in my reading of people’s experiences - most would move heaven and earth to put things right. The fact that so many children refuse to engage/discuss/repair the relationship saddens every mother who hears about it, ‘There but for the grace of god etc