Child arrangement court order

Non ie we don't even know if you are telling the truth so I fail to see how a 5 year old works it out 100% of the time

Nonnie, that is not how a 5 year old thinks.

Without giving too much away for my own privacy, in my profession, if I heard a child make a comment like that, that would immediately raise a reg flag for me.

It is natural and normal for a child to align with their parent. Even children from abusive backgrounds demonstrate this.

Children are far from stupid, but a comment like that is not something a child would say unless they had heard it from an adult.

I agree Summerlove, sounds like parental alienation. When a young child speaks negatively about a parent, it is usually due to third party interference.

Parental alienation causes lifelong damage and has a devastating impact on a child in their present and future life.

Being “alienated” from a grandparent, if you can even call it that, is not comparable. A child does not have the same bond with a grandparent than they do with their parent. Children raised without grandparents in their life fare no differently to those raised with grandparents in their life.

I think the 5 years olds I know must be brighter than the ones you know. Recent chats with my 5 year old GC prove it. He questions every last thing which doesn't seem correct to him. Of course it does depend on how obvious the lie is but if you know your parent says whatever is convenient and not necessarily true you soon learn that Mummy/Daddy tells lies. Children are far from stupid!

Oh of course situations are complicated with more to it. No one has stated otherwise

What has been stated is people disagreeing that parenting rights should be stripped and given instead to grandparents or other extended family members.

The lack of respect given to a generation as parents by the generation who raised them and now takes them to court for not giving them what they want is a generalization, but I do see it a lot.

We raised our children
They are different than us
It’s not our place to judge how they do things. Applying to strip some of their parenting rights is not the way to go about it.

I get it just fine. I know 5yr olds quite well, do you?

A five year old doesn’t come up with that without “help”.

I disagree if anyone thinks a child is better off not being deprived of people who are good for them then they should take advice in the interests of the children. Too much on here is people being for or against rather than understanding there may be more to it.

Summer you really don't get it do you? A child knows a lie just because they know it, because they are not stupid. I know they were not fed it, I know they worked it out themselves. However you are quite close to the situatio, it was the parent trying to alienate the child against the GP but the child saw the lie and told the GP. There was so much more to this too

No one said custody cases with parents can’t cause a child harm, we they did say though was those were their parents. Extended family shouldn’t then also do it

Mummy tells lies but Grandma doesn't"

How does a child even know that unless a grandma is feeding it to them?

Sounds like parental alienation to me - with no further facts

All these comments about GPs harming the children if they are forced to go to court seems to forget that the same, possibly worse happens when a parent goes to court for access to their child. As I said in my previous post it can cause suicide.

Starlady Thu 29-Aug-19 18:33:46 yes, I understand that but what about the damage done to the young child when it happens? If they have had a loving relationship with the dead parent and then afterwards the GPs and wider family and suddenly that is all cut off that must damage the children. First they lose a parent and then the whole of one side of the family. Poor children. I spoke to a policeman not long ago who said his brother had committed suicide because his wife wouldn't let him see the children. How would his children feel about being cut off from everyone?

Precisely notanan so a nasty vindictive parent can poison the poor child's mind. How does that make the child feel? Confused and upset I would think. I heard a 5 year old tell a younger sibling that "Mummy tells lies but Grandma doesn't". How does such a child cope with the loss of people he/she loves when they know their parent is a liar?

Thanks for the clarification Razz and Summerlove.

I dont think its entirely legally binding to do that here but does protect the spouce from the GPs claiming (lying) that they were a close family before the death and that the deceased would have wanted it.

I’m sorry yes, that grandparent NOT have access.

These adult children are afraid of lawsuits against surviving spouse, so want their wishes respected by the courts.

It was just a thought I had with all the talk about how a child “deserves” to hear heritage from grandparents

You cant DEMAND in your will who your DC go to. It is ultimately up to childrens court. But if it is reasonable they will honour it.

When making our will we were advised to list several preferences of people from our own generation

Well in the event of both parents death: the childrens courts are reluctant to give GPs guardianship anyway as ot risks the child being bereaved of 2 pairs primary carers before reaching adulthood. So if the larents suggest guardians of the parents generation (e.g. aunts/uncles) the courts usually honour that. With no will they only chose GPs as a last resort.

I think she meant that the parents are writing into their wills that should they pass they do not wish the estranged grandparents to have access to their children I don't know how that would stand up legally.... I also think that surely said grandparents would have to be among the awful ones for their children to think up writing it into their will? It seems extreme otherwise.

Sorry Summerlove I don't understand your post. Do you mean that some AC who have estranged their parents are stating in their wills that once they (the AC) have died, they want their EP's, their children's GP's, to have access?

I know that many couples (online at least) are stating they are writing their wills to state that should an estranged adult child pass, they want their estranged parents to have access. They want their wishes respected in death.

Should grand parents still go for access then?
(I think not, but I am curious what those who support going to court think)

Which is why the law needs to stay as it is, no automatic right to a court case.

The system of having GPs first apply and an assessment made as to whether the court case would be too much of a stain on the childs immediate family

Well, I'm sure there are a myriad of times when it wouldn't be appropriate to allow grandparents to sue for access.

We can all agree on that.

Because all families are different.

Which is why GPs have to apply for permission to take the parents to court, as it is not always in the childs best interests to put their household through the process!

A GP suing a recently bereaved family for example would and should be denied permission

None of that applies to my family, just for the record.

Because all families are different.

All the scenarios end up with more damage to children. Granted its a spectrum of damage depending on the reasons a grandparent was cut off, but still more damage to children.

The scenario presented that started the discussion about death was where there IS a partner/another parent.

But the response was to someone presenting a different scenario.