Child arrangement court order

It cannot be agreed to cut back during exam time, or the childs first period, or first term of a new school etc.

Disobaying the court ordered visit can = jail time!

The court assigns when, where, who, how, how long...

It is not a rap an the knuckles and an order to "play nice"

It is contact centres. Or fixed dates and times. Court orders are beyond being "reasonable" and discussing when suits the child best.

If life happens the only way to change the court order is to go back to court!

summerlove

Court contact is court ordered

Being "reasonable" doesnt come into it

What on earth do you imagine court ordered contact is?

I am too susceptible to people telling mewht I am thinking, saying or feeling. I end up believing I am in the wrong but, I can't see anyone against court ordered contact being so for the wrong reasons.

*And why do some of those who DO support GPs going to court want to perpetuate myths about the process (such as that if court contact is granted, it will be flexible and negotiable and wont bind the child to going when they need to be at home for various "life happening" reasons etc)

Why is stating how awful court ordered contact is so contentious?*

To the first part, the answer is obviously that they will be the reasonable ones who allow all of these things to happen.

To the second, Because that doesn’t go along with the narrative that they are the only reasonable kind people the child has in their lives.

It feels like this:

"Why wont you acknowledge that not all GPs cause the estrangement.."
"Okay sure, say 50% are not to blame, in which case..."
"STOP MAKING UP STATISTICS"
"ummm I was only trying to agree with you and say that the origional causes of estrangements are varied..."
"YOU ONLY CARE ABOUT 50% YOU SAID"
"um no, not what I said"
"You dont want a "discussion""
"Wait, what?"

Court orders are awful doesnt = estrangement is awesome + down with nans!!

It would be easier to believe that some posters have the GC in mind rather than point scoring if they showed any interest in what court orders really mean!

I just dont understand why it is not of interest to both sides to discuss the realities of court ordered contact in practice?

Why isnt that of interest to both sides?

And why do some of those who DO support GPs going to court want to perpetuate myths about the process (such as that if court contact is granted, it will be flexible and negotiable and wont bind the child to going when they need to be at home for various "life happening" reasons etc)

Why is stating how awful court ordered contact is so contentous?

I am going to agree with you GG... I haven't been agreeing with other posters visibly to avoid "ganging up" but I am definitely on the side of children who get no say in how they are pushed and pulled about. I'm also definitely on the side of common sense and decency when speaking to people you don't know instead of boxing them up and labelling them unfairly.

Namsnanny, I think you may be reading a different thread. I don’t recall GoodMama chucking about anything?

Unbalanced, uneducated, arrogance...really? On this thread?

Gang mentality? A difference of opinion is not gang mentality!

No one is disregarding statistics because there are no statistics! The matter is too subjective.

The reason I try to stay away from the estrangement threads is because it is only a matter of time before someone posts a post like yours Namsnanny.

There seems to be a lot of shouting about sides, who is at fault and finger pointing but really, when it comes down to it, none of that matters, because parents can decide who their children have relationships with, the law protects this and there is nothing anyone can do about it. And I don’t think you like that.

There are a few here who have shown genuine empathy to ECs, Smile as an example of that. Don't lose sight though that EC, or at least those I have seen commenting here have been emotionally and sometimes physically abused their entire lives. They have often ended up with abusive partners because that is how they thought "love" should look. These people are finally trying to break the cycle and be good parents for their own children. Now I sympathise for estranged GPS who don't deserve it, I really do. 40 years of my mother putting me on hospital and lying about it. Taking away my entire family support system with lies. Taking away my only sibling. Leaving me with serious issues that took years to undo. We don't need your judgement too and to be made into the enemy. It's not right. Surely people can see that. As abused children of course we are going to shout out to protect children.

Anyone who mentions contact centres or logistics etc "hates nans"

The people being one sided are the people who insist on making this about AC Vs GPs.

Its not about sides. Its not about the adults.

But the statistics dont matter to the child. The impact is the same on the child regardless of which adult "started it"

Nam, I'll add you to the list of people to ignore because they behave exactly the way they accuse others of. When the majority of people here have been kind, courteous and added something interesting to the discussion.

Hope your not wasting your time on here Smileless, but enjoying the company of your friends and the good weather (

Good grief!! So statistics don’t matter...unless one side wants to quote them of course, and then it is our place not to question just ‘listen quietly, awed by our betters’

Well done smileless you’ve shown patience in the face of unbalanced, uneducated, arrogance!

Those of you who feel so strongly what you say must be heard just like the sound of your own voices. Because the content of what you actually say is Ill informed, uneducated and only repeated to scapegoat and bully.
You have shown yourselves up by disregarding relevance, statistics, and common respect.

You are often hoisted by your own petard.

As when goodmamma (and a lot could be said about why someone would choose this for a name)
Showed her true colours by ‘chuckling’ was it?
Unjustly using another’s pain or words against them.
Assumptions based on nothing etc etc etc.

Certain people evangelically force their POV on others.
To beyond being just loud rude and domineering, to the point of bullying.

You’re welcome to your POV, how ever much I feel you are misguided.

But I cannot in all conscience allow this gang mentality intimidate new and old members for having different opinions to yourselves, without pointing out, once again, this behaviour is self centred, controlling, bullying

Disguised as child caring.

While it could be easy to see estrangement as solely negative, the reality is more complicated. Just as traditional taboos against divorce can keep women tethered to abusive and exploitative marriages, a dogmatic belief in the sanctity of families can keep people suffering needlessly.

Twenty,
Excellent article

Can I just add to the mix, that in some cases of estrangement, neither party is individually bad, but they are bad together

Some people are just not meant to be in a relationship together. It is the relationship that is toxic, not either individual on their own.

Because "its family" some people persist with these relationships, when they wouldnt if it was a friend or partner. These sort of relationships "take over" ones energy, mental health, and ability to just get on with life

A lot of estrangements happen just to stop the drama. To have a quiet life, a quiet life to focus on parenting and good relationships and to role model the latter to the children.

It does the child no good, when their parent is worn down by the stress of a dominating toxic relationship and trying to walk away from it to create a calm stable environment in which to parent, for the estrangee to not let them go!

Yes! Maybe the estrangement came about because of the parents mental health or issues, but if thats what they need to do to cope with parenting and family life, it is the right thing for their child. This is their primary carer. You cannot stress or harm the parent without stressing or harming the child

Nonnie, I’m simply not interested in a view that entertains trampling on parental privacy and parental rights.

I’ve proabbly worn out my welcome here, and think it’s best that I retire from this thread. I’ve nothing more to add to the topic, and thankfully am immune to the threat of the courts.

Peace & Happiness!

Estrangement is often times the only solution, my mother made a choice to abuse me, all abusive people know right from wrong. Damaging me also must have damaged her. Keeping up with lies etc. This is why I said on another thread that EPs should not support without thought other EPs, or take their advice. Some abusive people will be here looking for attention. The absolute same way I would not blindly support other EC or take their advice. Until you really get to know someone and hear their stories and reasons and see the consistant pattern of who they are and how they conduct themselves to others. It should never be 2 camps, estranged against estrangers. Each situation should be treated as individual.

Perhaps I didn't express it very well, either that or some chose to interpret what I said so I will make it clearer. If a child is denied access to the whole of one side of its heritage it is simply wrong be it because the other parent has died or moved away for whatever, the child should be allowed access to both sides of its family.

Smile you are being very reasonable on here despite some of the comments. Well done.

I do think it would be a better discussion if people didn't simply argue but tried to see the other's point of view.

HiThere, I’m also glad I’m not in NY. I feel very fortunate to live in an area where parents rights are protected.

I don’t believe this link below points to 50%, and I agree ‘why is the accuracy of this number actually important?’

We are individuals with individual situations that we experience, not a generalization.

I can tell you that 100% of my parents are unreasonable, do not respect boundaries, say that I’m a liar, call me names. And then state ‘I’m punishing them and my youngest daughter be not giving them access to her.”

Does that percentage matter to you? Probably not.

You also asked 3 specific questions earlier in the thread, which I politely answered, did those questions also matter to you? Your dialog seems very one-sided when you don’t get the answers to the questions that you ask that line up with your idea of what is ‘correct’ with your query.

You also seem very one sided and ‘get mad’ when comes to only what matters to you, so I’ll likely need to go low or no contact with you until you start reciprocating dialog in a resonable manner, such as giving feedback to questions you have asked that I answered, that you chose to ignore me. I’m sure that doesn’t really matter to you either, but I’ll say it anyway here to illustrate a point.

And that point: Here is a great article on how communication and dialog breakdown, and estrangement is beneficial in many cases. Not 50%, but many.

www.bbc.com/future/story/20190328-family-estrangement-causes

I'm simply saying 50% to be fair yes. Statistics can come out very biased depending on who is asked and can be very misleading. For an example, if you are 50% more likely to get sick if you eat a certain food, it could be that 1% get sick not eating it and 2% get sick if they do, that is 50% more. Anyway, it's the logical answer that if there are awful people in every generation then 50% seems a reasonable conclusion. Say some people are estranged due to a mother's behaviour. Some due to a father or stepfather. Some are estranged because of their own issues or because they have an abusive partner who has forced them to cut off family or brainwashed them. Then for every GP who deserves visitation, there is one who would damage the child. That is aside from the whole process damaging the child. I think working on mending the relationship would be the best move in all cases, because the resulting friction of forces contact would only destroy the relationship when the GC becomes old enough to say no more.