Child arrangement court order

MissAdventure, yes exactly, that’s why the legislation is there.

Yes, I think it does matter GG which is why I asked.

Surely though, if the parent does have mental health/addiction problems, then that is a good reason to keep a stabilising influence in a child's life? (Assuming, of course, that the grandparent isn't toxic)

Does it really matter Smileless? It is hard enough to define what “good reason” is as it is subjective - good reason to someone may be unjust to another - never mind applying it to statistics.

I think Razmatazz was simply trying to be fair to those who have been cut out through no fault of their own - when their adult child has addiction issues, mental health issues, has separated/divorced, passed away etc.

I am sure those who have estranged feel like they have done so for “good reason”, even if the person cut off doesn’t agree.

At the end of the day, if a parent cuts a grandparent out of their grandchildren’s life, then the law automatically presumes that it is in the child’s best interests. Good reason or not.

"when at least 50% of the time GPs have been cut off for good reason" do you have anything to back up that statistic Razzmatazz?

I am glad you were not in NY, twenty

I hope the laws do not change when at least 50% of the time GPs have been cut off for good reason. Children must be protected.

I believe it is the same here, GPS would have to prove they had a huge positive involvement in the child's life and pass the same standards as someone seeking adoption. Both my children were over 14 so would not have been a worry for me. Had they been younger, my other never babysat, took them to the park and had no idea what their likes and interests even were. She made me choose all birthday and Christmas presents and then half the time would get something they didn't like anyway, which hurt a lot because, I would give her my present ideas and they then would not get something they would love. I have no doubt she would have tried the court route had they been younger though. Just to look good to wider family. It's crazy what the family believe. They believe she supported me financially which is untrue and that she spent a lot of time with them, also untrue.

Thankfully, I'm immune to the rancid process that some low-life put into the court system there. As I stated before, and my reason for commenting on this thread..

When you decide to assault your child in this manner, you have made yourself and enemy of the family for the rest of your life.

^Florida is aggressive in statutorily protecting the privacy rights of its citizens, and the courts have repeatedly interpreted requests for visitation from grandparents as assaults on parental privacy.

In 1980 a privacy amendment was added to Florida's constitution. It reads, "Every natural person has the right to be let alone and free from government intrusion into his private life except as otherwise provided herein." In the 1996 case of Beagle v. Beagle, the court decided that the state could not intervene to award grandparent visitation over the protests of parents in an intact family unless failing to award visitation would be detrimental to the child — the so-called "harm standard." The court held that this high standard was necessary to *keep the state from intruding on the private lives of its citizens.*^

Really off-putting.

Unhappy your attitude is really in these few comments. I hope there is more to you because you come across really badly and like an extremely difficult person to get on with. I hope EPs will follow a different path to you.

Yes Razzamatazz I live my truth and I respect the right for others to live theirs.

No, it is not unreasonable GG. Actions have consequences and the consequence for some parents who take their children away from their GP's is that those GP's may choose to go to court.

With no one to represent you, you were courageous to go it alone Unhappy. Court was not the right thing for us but I respect your decision to do all that you could to maintain your relationship with your GC.

I'm sorry for you and for them that it didn't work out and I hope that one day you'll be able to tell them how hard you tried.

And finally...thank you to notanan2..for your considerable contribution to this thread...I have read your endless comments...and totally
disregarded them..

Joyfulnanna..thank u for ur support.
In answer to your question...if you can afford a solicitor get one...I couldn't so had to defend myself....be prepared...you are in a formal court room..alongside the parents...your brain turns to mush....get help from support unit attached to court...they will help you and also go into court with you so ur not alone...all forms have to be in triplicate....your first appearance I court is only for the magistrates to decide whether to give you permission to apply for access...so be prepared to go to court at least twice..I went four times as parents didn't turn up twice. There is a court fee I think "250...if you meet criteria you get help with this. If any GP are going to court I am happy to help ...be prepared for the long haul..mine took 9 mths ..please don't be put off by some of the comments against going to court...if it's right for you do it..if not then that's ok too.

My point about my aunt was more to illustrate the damage of a child having someone in their life who disagreed so strongly with the parents.

I had far more damage from my visits with her than I would have had, had my parents chosen not to push the relationship.

Her issue was with my parents, not me. The things she said about them, and how she treated them was terrible.

My parents encourage the relationship because they thought they were doing the right thing and making sure I knew my aunt and that she had access.

It was not the right thing

GG65, not when it means they don’t get what they want.

GPs are not forced to go to court.

They have a choice.

They can decide to accept that the parents have made a decision, and leave the parents and GC alone to pursue their own lives.

Or, they can choose to go to court to fight for their "rights".

At the end of the day, as your own situation has demonstrated, you have a choice.

No notanan I am not blinded by my anger I'm just fed up with the constant bashing that EP's and EGP's receive.

Stating the destructive impact of having their household taken to court

Of having life restricted by court orders

Of the horrible realities of court ordered contact (potentially including contact centres)

Is not EP/EGP bashing.

It is A: stating fact
And B: seeing court ordered contact from the child's perspective.

There is certainly a degree of acknowledgement that some parents deny grandparents contact with their grandchildren for reasons that are not just.

However, it is unreasonable to expect a degree of acknowledgement that parents who deny grandparents contact with their grandchildren are responsible for any subsequent court orders those grandparents try to put in place.

Parents can deny anyone contact with their child (excluding the other parent) if they wish. That is their right as parents. Grandparents have no rights.

The courts recognise this - that is why there are so few cases where grandparents have actually been granted a contact order. The legislation exists to protect a child’s relationship with a grandparent with whom they have formed a primary attachment.

It seems that some posters cannot recognise (or accept) the fundamental right of parents being the ultimate decision makers when it comes to their own children.

Smile, I don't understand, you chose not Togo to court and no one is telling you off. You live your truth, don't put yourself in a box

Kudos to you and yours, Paddyann!

Just to clarify - My point about there not being a level playing field between parents and GPs wasn't said in favor or against the situation, just stating what seems to be a fact. However, notanan, I get your point about children needing to have primary caregivers, and, most often, of course, those are the parents.

No notanan I am not blinded by my anger I'm just fed up with the constant bashing that EP's and EGP's receive. I would be less angered if there was a degree of acknowledgement that the parents who deny their children their GP's, are just as responsible if the GP's decide to go to court by their actions, as GP's are if they decide to go down that path.

If these parents allowed some contact, there would be no need for GP's to go to court. So no, it is not only those who instigate court proceedings who are responsible. The parents are equally responsible for denying contact in the first place. So when you continuously go on and on about the damage done to children whose GP's go to court, remember it's the actions of their parents who are ultimately responsible.

I never thought I had you "pegged" *Summerlove" any more than you have me. Your aunt had the opportunity to pursue her relationship with you and chose not too. GP's who decide to go to court aren't given that opportunity which is why some choose to go to court.

You dont have to be a GP to have seen the damage court orders do to children. Just ask any teacher or anyone who works with children.

I don't sound angry, I am angry but not because our estrangement, because of the constant blaming of EP's and GP's by those who are themselves not estranged, one who isn't a GP and several who are themselves estranging AC.

Are you reading a different thread? Or just blinded by your anger?

This isnt about who is to blame for estrangements.
It is about the damage court orders does to children.

And only the people who instigate court proceedings can be to blame for that

Parents and relatives (including GPs) who have had guardianship or fostered are justified in doing it, it still causes harm but that is balanced with the court order being about a member of the immediate family.

But to put a child through court orders for contact with extended family... that is not justifiable!