Child arrangement court order

To be seen, not seem.

That's a very big 'if' Hithere and where the father's parents have had access to their GC prior to the break up of the marriage it's obvious that for the ex d.i.l. to do all she can to prevent that access from continuing, she's acting out of spite.

The breakdown of a relationship doesn't automatically make one set of GP's unfit to have a relationship with their GC when they were fit enough before.

Smileless,

If his parents are unsafe for the child, disregard safety measures, allergies, medical routine care, parenting rules, father using grandparents as childcare while he goes and has the great single life during his custody time, etc

It is to be seem case by case. There is not a all size fits all

Why would he go along with that outrageous demand EMMF? Joint custody means joint in all decisions concerning the children so one parent cannot lay down the law and demand that the other parent not allow their parents to see their GC.

I just don't understand why someone would go along with this when the marriage has broken down anyway. Sheer spite on the part of the d.i.l.

Yes FlyingSolo it is possible to love a child you've never met. We love both of our GC even though we've never met the youngest and haven't seen his brother since he was 8 months old.

My heart goes out to the GP's who established a relationship with their GC, spent time with them and got to know them before having them taken away.

It does help doesn't it Unhappy when you realise that your estrangement is not because of anything you've done. To begin with, those feelings of guilt and shame are over whelming and make the pain all the more harder to deal with.

Good post kaimegan so no need to run for cover. It is good news about September's meeting. With the increasing number of P's and GP's becoming estranged, it looks as if this is becoming the 'norm'.

I wonder how many GC will grow up feeling as you do Blossomsmum and not just the ones who once had a relationship with their GP's but also the ones who will never have known them.

That's very sad Minshy, to be cut out of your daughter's life because you no longer wanted to stay in an unhappy marriage. You see your other GC which shows that your D's the one at fault and not you.

Generally it's accepted that the parents have the right to make decisions regarding their children.

In the event of a breakdown though it's almost always the woman who makes the demands. I have known a couple where the marriage of their son broke down, he and his wife had joint custody but the mother insisted that whenever the children were with their father they should not be allowed to see his parents. Her parents, who were very involved in the break down, naturally carried on seeing the children.

Sadly grandparents don't feature where some courts are concerned-----social services too

Yet when some awfulcase about a child hits the courts and the headlines someone always bleats But where were the family to see what was happening?

kaimegan Although I am very fortunate in not being put in this terrible position, I would none the less like to thank you and praise you for taking action right to the top - as far as you could go. I cannot imagine the pain of being kept away from your grandchildren and how much worse that is knowing the DGC are missing you. I would like to suggest we all, not just those affected, but all of us who care at GransNet get behind a petition to make a fair Law enabling GC to see their GParents. Maybe we could all start by writing to our own MP? Please give me advice concerning what to say.
Do not give up. The children need their grandparents.

Minshy, I can relate to your pain and unhappiness although in my case I am now quite confused about my feelings and by the whole situation. I think though that if I had already met the baby I would feel even worse. Is it possible to love a child you haven't met? I'm not sure how to label my feelings.

Flying solo
I too have a 4 month old grandson that I will never meet. My daughter cut me off when I divorced her father after 35 years of marriage.
It’s soul destroying that a daughter I raised well has turned out to be such a cold hearted woman.
I have other grandchildren that I see and dread the time when they realise I have not yet met this baby. How to explain?
I don’t think going to court will ever be the answer. The parents wishes have to be respected.
I have started a box with a diary in case when he is old enough he may accept it and know that I love him.
This is my punishment for not staying in an unhappy marriage.
I’m even unhappier now

Although I have not been allowed to see my 3 week old grandchild and have no idea if/when I will be allowed (he has said I will at some point (can I be certain?) but goodness knows if the baby will still be a baby by then!) I am still against the idea of having a law that would force parents to allow grandparents access. In worse case situations I can imagine adult men and women who have had shocking childhoods seriously considering choosing not to have children just to avoid being forced to have their own parents back in their lives. And I also think that if there is still even a slim chance of relationships being mended that getting the law involved would prevent it ever happening.

My reply isn't aimed at anyone's personal situation on here. These situations tend to be complicated and painful. It is just my general view on the subject.

Blossomsmum...such a sad story...even at such a young age u loved your gran....and I'm sure she loved you...you cannot change the past...keep your self with what memories you have of her...and take care of you...xx

I am 67 and until I was 5 my grandmother lived with us . Then my parents fell out with her and she moved to the other side of the country and they cut off all contact with her . I saw her twice after that , once when I was about 9 and that was only for a few minutes and had to be kept secret . The next time I was 19 and she was completely senile .
I still grieve for the loss of my relationship with her and yes I am still angry about it .
May be if parents looked at how it impacts on children there wouldn’t be grandparents and grandchildren left grieving for each other .

Personally I think that if you move your child away from the parent, you should sort out taking the child back to its roots and family. If you are the parent who moves away from the child, it is incumbent on you to visit the child. Children have no say in what happens most of the time with a divorce. My stepchildren were whisked over 200 miles away from their father with vague promises of a land of milk and honey coupled with anything they wanted they would get. Of course, it didn't work out like that so they all returned as adults but had missed some very valuable time growing up around a very loving, hands on Dad.
I'm sorry, Unhappy1 you have been put in this situation and I think it is horrible that children lose out with relationships with their extended family in these situations. Of course children should not put their children in harm's way with unsuitable members of the family but ultimately it should be their rights (the children's) that are considered, not the parents. Knowing our roots is so important.

Kaimegan.....well said...I'm with you 100 percent...good news about debate...

Thank u hithere...
You have to go to mediation...then u have to make a statement and ask for Permission to apply....this was granted saying I had a living and meaningful with my grandson.
Then u make another statement to apply for access.
My son is a grown man of 49 yrs....from day one he said I never had a close relationship...he had concerns over my driving...(driven for 39 yrs...accident free thankfully)...my grandson had not missed me...then his partner broke down in tears and said she had gone on sick leave..because of...is an Oscar winning perfkrmance..the list goes on.
Luckily I have a daughter and granddaughter who offer support so I don't need counselling.
My son has used his child as a weapon...as many do.
As I stated before...hard as it is...you sometimes have to admit..your children have grown into selfish heartless adults.
I have...and have realised..it's not me...it's him.

Due to sons wife I have not been allowed to see mine since 2012. Courts cannot help if parents have parental control. There are thousands of us in this country in same position and need to get the law changed so we are like France where children are allowed access to grandparents. Sept. 4th we are having a meeting in Parliament with 2 great MP,s speaking,-Matthew Offord and Nigel Huddleston. We have had debates since 2016 but MP,s have failed to get Lucy Frazer MP to act. Childrens rights are ignored. Now deemed to be coercive control by parents -99% are the mothers- with up to 5 years in prison. Need someone to take strong action. It cannot be "normal" to hurt your children in this way.
First post, now run for cover before the back lash.

This issue is complex and never easy. Unfortunately in families affected by divorce or separation it is a likely outcome nowadays that part of the family may never see a much loved child again. The Family Court frequently has to try and reach a solution that is guaranteed to upset someone.
Also it is a sad fact that many grandparents awarded access then allow a parent judged to be a danger, to spend time with the child.
I am sorry for whatever sort of division has happened in your family, and sincerely hope that it can be resolved and you can see your grandchildren again.

What lies did your son say about you in court?

Usually the grandparent has to bear the burden of the proof that he/she has been crucial in the grandchild's life and the child is worse off when the grandparent is not around.

I hope you had that proof and it could challenge your son's statements.

The main problem is that a relationship with a minor depends on your relationship with the parents.
If you have disagreements or don't get along with the parents, they won't trust you to care or even have a relationship with their child.

Once you take the parents to court, possible reconciliation with the parents may never be possible, tberefore say bye bye to a relationship with your grandchild.

Have you considered therapy so this issue does not consume your life?

Nannan2
I think your son and you have been put in a terribly unreasonable situation. It seems very wrong to me that you have to do the journey to the GPs and father when they moved away.

I am appalled by people like those GPs who can see that their GS has no feelings for them and would rather not be there yet still use the force of the law to make his life and yours miserable by dragging you on this horrible journey several times a year. They can't possibly love him. They are just totally selfish. I do so wish that something could be put in place that stopped this situation from arising. The child's wishes need to be taken into account. The difficulties of the distance and expense of the journey should be the responsibility of the parties wanting to see the child. I hope that soon you will not have to go on this journey, as your son is now growing older. What age does he have to be to decide for himself if wants to go?

Tillybelle...thank u for ur lovely comments...I am a non believer....so I certainly do not blame your God...what a kind..caring person you are xx

Unhappy1

sometimes we come to the unfortunate realisation

I again send my heartfelt sympathy, indeed empathy. This is one of the cruelest blows any loving Mother can receive. I am so very sorry. You are not alone.

Although it is not what you want to hear, I would say it is probably best for you at this time to walk away and give yourself a break from this agonising struggle. When a person is a Liar and a convincing Liar at that, we are temporarily frozen, immobile, unable to move forward in the truth and to obtain that which is right. But one day you will see your beloved Grandson, of this I am certain.

Please take very great care of yourself. You have had a terrible shock, and this takes a lot out of you. You need time to recover. Be kind to yourself. You are not alone. There are many of us who have had that same dreadful realisation. On another Forum here you will find many estranged Grandparents who will support you.
With love, Elle x ?

Unhappy1. I have not had this experience, but I am so distressed by the pain you must be in. I feel so upset for you. I am so very sorry this has happened. Do not give up hope, be kind to yourself. I shall pray for you. If you feel God let you down I understand, but it wasn't God who did it - it was the Devil. Unfortunately we have to live with the actions of evil in this life.

I do so hope that you will get some good news one day and that meanwhile you will manage to keep going and be strong for that day when you will see your beloved Grandchildren again. I send you much love. From Elle x ???

www.thepsu.org/ This in court support organisation is worth knowing about now that the availability of Legal Aid has been so drastically cut that, you may recall, even the barristers went on strike about the cuts! I have not been to court on our own behalf but supported our son to achieve shared residency when his ex-partner had overdosed while her older son was in her care. I was shocked that the Children and Families Court Advisory and Support service neither interviewed our son about his concerns nor assessed our grandson. It was a worrying time as we thought DGC's mum might move away and cut all contact. I wrote to her offering my support and 13 years on the shared care arrangement put in place by the court is still intact.

We'll...thank u to all of you who have given it support...and to those who have other opinions on what I should or shouldn't have done tbh I am surprised. I guess until you go thru such a heartbreaking situation..you cannot empathize. When I watched my son stand in court and blatantly tell lies....I asked myself what kind of man he had become....sometimes we come to the unfortunate realisation...he is not a nice human being. He hadn't spoke to me or his sister for 14 years before my grandson was born. He only needed me for childcare...for 5 years..then when I was finding it difficult and couldn't do it...literally overnite..I was out of my grandsons life....