Child arrangement court order

It was you who made that point notanan by saying that people cannot make alterations to court orders.

It is not my intention to make you feel uncomfortable LostChild but I must say that I feel the same way. Perhaps we are both misconstruing the others intentions.

I wasn't aware that the conversation on this thread was making EC feel that they are here to make trouble but I do feel that is how some EGP's are made to feel.

Lost we clearly hate all grannies just because we do not think that court orders = a happy ending!

Smileless, forgive me but you are making me feel very uncomfortable the way you jump on everything I say.

Can we just please all talk without ECs being treated like we are here to make trouble.

and when it comes to issues of contact with children decent people don't need court orders to tell them how to behave, they know how to behave and do so instinctively.

Right well a minute ago you were saying that people WITH a court order would chat amicably and sensibly about when to rearrange or ignore a court order... so why do they have/need one in the first place?

This is getting silly! I was simply replying to the idea that a visitation court order at Christmas time is a suggestion that parents may be unfit, and its not! Court orders are not about that. There are instances where a court order would fall at unsuitable times, and the parent does risk penalties if they dont oblige.

Whether or not courts have the CAPACITY to enforce court orders
Or whether or not some people flout court orders, is really not the point.

I don't see any word twisting.

Oh my goodness, there is a lot of talking in circles going on here, and a lot of twisting of words.

I wouldn't say ordinary people I'd say decent people, and when it comes to issues of contact with children decent people don't need court orders to tell them how to behave, they know how to behave and do so instinctively.

Yes some people defy courts... and break laws.... and dont follow rules...

... doesnt mean that the above doesnt bind ordinary people who arent brave or careless or intoxicated etc enough to do so!

You'd do better to ask that to a parent who for example has a court order to see his/her children but whose ex partner refuses to make the child(ren) available, or GP's who face the same problem because their GC's parents don't co operate.

In reality, if the P or GP does go back to court to have the order reinforced, a rap on the knuckles is generally what the un co operative parent receives.

The bane of many a family lawyer's life whose client is not getting what the court ordered.

A court order is not a guide or a suggestion.

It is a court order.

Are you actually going to argue now that courts dont really mean what they order? and its just a rap on the knuckles and an instruction to "play nice"?

How about night? Is it day?

You said that specified court orders for contact cannot be altered without the courts permission and you were wrong.

Oh god fine, they physically can, but not without risk of serious penalties! Which amounts to the same thing in practice!

In res Vs non res parent cases the NRP can just not show up to contact if they dont feel like it with no risk of penalty. They might lose the contact order if the RP takes it back to court but thats it, no real penalties. The res parent can face jail if they dont keep trudging the kid to contact even if the NRP may not be there until the court says otherwise.

The RP is very vulnerable. The NRP can say "lets skip this week" but the res parent can STILL face penalties if the kid isnt brought to handover.

You said that specified court orders for contact cannot be altered without the courts permission and you were wrong.

As there arent that many examples of GP contact orders about the most acurate way to see what it looks like in practice is to look at res Vs non res parent cases.

To make an accurate comparison with GP contact you have to look at contact orders where there is a resident parent and a non resident parent.

Nobody is "at risk" when 50/50 joint parents swap an equal amt of contact.

Not comparable.

They can. A friend of ours going through a divorce has joint custody. She has the children during the week and he has them at weekends, as specified by the court. They have swapped days to take into account birthdays, Christmas and visiting GP's.

They cannot smileless. Not unless the order is worded in such a way like "four visits a year" or "at least once a month". Those orders have some flexibility within reason

But some court orders specify "alternate weekends" or "first sunday of the month" etc and those are not up for negotiation.

if a parent has good reasons for stopping their child from seeing the GPs then they will be so sure of their case that they won't be so stressed

You can’t be serious, can you? Have you never had anxiety, or stressed about anything?

Re: losing a parent, of course a child doesn’t forget, but they do need to move on and continue living. Having extended family constantly bringing up dead parent to remind the child isn’t always helpful. There is a happy medium, But most people I have seen go overboard and make sure they spend every visit discussing the dead parent which only serves to upset the child. It makes extended family feel better “they are doing their part” without regard for how it affects the child.

I suppose that the parent must be responsible for their own stress if they refuse to mediate.

It is not accurate to say that parents can avoid court by agreeing to mediate.

Here are some reasons I have known mediation to fail in parent/parent cases I know of:

- bad mediator who actually created more conflict than there origionally was. Parents later became amicable and agreed that mediator was awful
- the non resident parent refusing to have joint mediation! Yes! Mediation without sitting in the same room is a thing! So the res parent said "no way, we need to be able to SPEAK to each other and co-parent, I will do joint mediation but not separate mediation" Non resident parent then told the court that THEY had offered mediation (in separate rooms/sessions), and the res parent refused mediation and sold themselves as the reasonable one!
- the non res parents legal advise telling them to "overshoot" what they want in mediation so that they look like the ones who are comprimising/reasonable in court later (i.e. if you want joint ask for primary res, if you want alt weekends ask for everyweekend)
- manipulation: in mediation asking for something that they know will upset the other & make them say no so the other person looks unreasonable to the courts. E.g. if the non res parent knows that the res parent visit a family grave with their family every may half term, THAT is the half term they ask for!

Rubbish, of course they can unless one side is so deeply embedded in their own bitterness, anger and resentment that they are incapable of behaving like adults and making alternative arrangements.

The courts aren't bothered if changes are made to visit times and dates if all parties are in agreement, unless a stipulation of a supervised order is broken. Their interest is in court orders that are broken, when a visit should take place but a parent doesn't turn up and then if it's the other P or GP's being deliberately denied, they have to go back to court.

Oh and let's not forget that if a contact order is given to GP's and their visiting time falls on Christmas day or a milestone birthday of another family member, those GP's are so selfish, so unconcerned about the welfare of their GC that they wouldn't dream of re arranging the date and time of the visit in the best interests of their GC.
THEY CAN'T
Thats not how court orders work!
The parents have to do what the COURT ordered, the only way to alter a court order without the parents risking prison is to go back to court!

It's a shame that all too often the worse of intentions are presumed to be on the EGP's agenda, and that some of the posters on here are unable or unwilling to make their point without making distasteful comments.

"memory boxes of their fantasy grand parenting that they never got to do ...." horrible. How many GP's "present" their now AC with the memory boxes they've made? How many simply tell the AGC of the boxes existence and then wait until said AGC asks to see it? If they don't, and it's been willed to them, they will still have the option whether to look inside or not. How many GP's never mention the existence of a memory box, knowing their AGC will inherit it one day.

"Then they are not really interested in the AGC who reached out are they? They are just using the AGC to validate their past grievances about the situation". Such amazing insight into hearts and minds of EGP's; such extensive knowledge of people and their individual circumstances; people no one knows.

Oh but I keep forgetting, there's no such thing as a parent who takes their children away from a GP out of spite, out of wickedness and cruelty. All estranging AC are innocent and victims of their abusive parents.

All EGP's are evil. Their GC need to be protected them from them at all costs.

Oh and let's not forget that if a contact order is given to GP's and their visiting time falls on Christmas day or a milestone birthday of another family member, those GP's are so selfish, so unconcerned about the welfare of their GC that they wouldn't dream of re arranging the date and time of the visit in the best interests of their GC.

"...who LOVE them..."