The reasons

IMO you always demonstrate a good grasp of issues regarding estrangement Starladyand that in part may be because you don't have any personal experience.

You don't have any of the negative experiences and pain that being estranged produces, and this is what both estranging AC and parents who have been estranged, understandably bring with them into all discussions about this issue.

What's needed in cases where there has been no child abuse is for both the AC and the parents to listen to one another, but in situations where communication no longer exists, this can never be achieved.

Starblaze

I agree, I’ve got lovely children and grandchildren, a good husband, good friends, a nice home, she is well and truly in my past.

Sara65 I understand. I try to view it as the path I had to walk to meet my husband, find my friends and have my children. It's never too late to be amazing!

Thankyou all for your kind words.

I wouldn’t want you to think I was perfect, I think I could be quite mouthy in my teens, and I honestly think she had her own demons, but there was never a bond.

I always say that if I had a single happy memory of growing up with her, I’d have tried harder, but there was nothing worth fighting for.

I don't think the way they treat us is always the worst thing they do... Its the fact that they deliberately cause a rift between us and our family support system and even our siblings. If one were saying awful things, that is not nearly as bad as everyone else cheering them on without a scrap of real evidence you are what they say you are.

IMO, a key point in those linked articles is that the estranged or semi-estranged parent doesn't always realize that their AC is acting on his/her own view of the situation, not on the parent's view. I don't think it's unusual or "wrong" for two people to have different views of a situation (unless one person is delberately distorting it) or for the parent to defend themselves against their AC's accusations. The main problem, as one of the articles mentions, seems to be that if the parent disagrees w/ the AC's view, they then disregard it, deciding it can't be the "reason" for the CO. Parents who do this (I'm sure it's not all) forget that their AC still feels their complaint is valid and so, for them (the AC) that is the reason for the rift. Since I'm not estranged, perhaps I don't fully grasp the situation. But I think most of us parents would do well to try to see things through our AC's eyes when there's a conflict, NOT saying the EPs here haven't done that, just thinking out loud - this is something I'm going to keep in mind for the next time DD and I have a disagreement.

Sara and Hetty, I am so sorry. Hugs!

Sara, I can barely imagine a mother who never says a kind word to her child. I know they exist, I just can't get my mind around it. Bravo to you for learning to compliment yourself or however one would say that.

Hetty, good on you for shielding your kids from your mom. I'm sorry you didn't do more to protect yourself, but TG, you protected them.

MovingOn -- The truth is what abusers fear the most. As soon as something/someone that sees through them, the impact is a wounding blow.

As Issendai said, "This emotional amnesia shapes their entire lives, pushing them to associate only with people who won't criticize them, training their families to shelter them from blows so thoroughly that the softest protest feels like a fist to the face."

Holyhannah I'm not surprised that people won't read them. Most likely for theirs a lot of truth in them.

Sarah65 sorry for what you went through. I'm glad you've finally found some liberation from not speaking to her. One has to do whats healthy, safe and best for them.

Good for you Hetty58. I'm glad that things are becoming clearer for you and support Sara65 when she says that its best to walk away.

MovingOn2018, I've been reading through the links and thanks, things are becoming clearer!

Sara65, apart from making sure that she was never alone with my kids, I did nothing.

Hetty

I agree, but I think that’s why it’s best to walk away.

My abusive (but not estranged) late mother could never see that there was any problem. She just denied it. Everything was turned around as being my own fault. I'd remembered things that never happened. I accepted that and loved her very much.

My older sister (surprisingly) took her side, apparently blinded to reality, brainwashed into questioning my version of events, denying things. A 'happy, carefree and normal' (we had to be normal) picture was painted of our childhood. I questioned my own memories.

But then I still have the physical scars. I have a brother far more traumatised, who suffered the worst. How do you ever reconcile two different, almost opposite, versions of events?

Abusers don't feel or say sorry because, in their twisted minds, they did nothing wrong, they wrote a different book, edited their memories, saw you as a difficult child who needed discipline and, of course, you brought it all on yourself!

BradfordLass

My mother never said a nice thing to, or about me, there was a time when I craved a kind word, when even the most simple compliment would have meant the world to me.

But gradually I began to realise that I don’t need anything from her, I’ve watched her showering my eldest daughter with love and compliments, almost trying to squeeze me out, and I honestly don’t care.

I feel a bit sorry for my daughter at times though

I haven’t spoken to her for nearly 20 years now, and I’ve found it wonderfully liberating.

MovingOn -- People have been pointed to those sites before. EP's can't/won't read them -- at least not the abusive ones.

I wonder if that is how you can tell the abusive parents who have been estranged for good reason from the parents who have been cut off unfairly. Whether or not they are willing to talk about those given reasons

A lot of the most abusive people, typicaly feign not knowing why they are estranged. At times the reasons just aren't missing and people just aren't willing to discuss those given reasons

www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html

www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-reasons-given.html

I wasnt responding to you in that way Peonyrose, I was responding to your Mils words which were repeated by Oopsminty lol

Sorry, should have made that clearer x

Jealousy of our relationship with our ES was definitely a factor Peonyrose. She even told me once that she was jealous!!

Star blaze, You have completely misconstrued what I said. I never tried to justify abuse, mental or physical, my sympathies lie with any child suffering abuse, I would hope that families are more aware now and will step in if they fear a child isn't being cared for.. People do cut family off for perceived wrongs and disagreements, sometimes envy. I am fortunate with my Dil but many are jeleous of their partners relationship with their mother,before example, they want to be first so make life difficult.

Sorry Razzmatazz, you said she * became a GGP *, but wasn’t she one already to your GC? We tried on and off for 25 years with my MIL, she just denied there was a problem. Don’t waste any more time on it, enjoy your children and GC.

that should have been 'P's/GP's.

I agree Madgran the child/AC who has learned to say nothing and not react for fear of repercussions, and some P's?Gp,s who walk on eggshells and keep their opinions and thoughts to themselves, for the same reason.

I agree Peonyrose and Oopsminty; take a deep breath, count to 10 and if that doesn't work leave asap and as diplomatically as possible.

BradfordlassI hope that your mum saw you for the lovely daughter you are, even if she never told you so.

Hurtful, selfish behaviour over and over again that you just take because you 'don't want to rock the boat'

Yup recognise that one. As I am sure do many other GPs and ACs. Members of both "groups" have experienced that...

I wonder what would happen if we all took the Queen's view of 'never explain, never apologise'. I seem to do a lot of explaining and apologising.