*SUPPORT* for all who are living with estrangement

Good Morning All- One of the things I noticed about my ES is that he stopped seeing friends and talking to them. He only has one friend left. He has isolated himself at his dads with no job either for almost two years. This is a sign of mental illness but yet he won’t see anyone because there is nothing wrong with him. Do I feel better knowing it may be mental illness ? No but it helps me to understand thst it’s not me who is his mother that is at fault. Please remember that. Unless we abused our children we have NOTHING to feel guilty about. That fact that they estranged us over something trivial and childish is their problem. That’s not to say that we will feel less pain.

Yes it is Madgran. I experienced the same when my dear step dad developed vascular dementia. Never thought I'd go through it again with my own son.

I began to miss him even before he estranged us, it just wasn't the same anymore.
It is certainly possible to miss someone even when seeing them isnt it Smileless

There are so many similarities FS. Their friends are her friends, friends he'd known for years, some since school are no longer around.

Our ES's wife would at times talk down to him, belittle him. I'd sit there with my tongue clenched between my teeth, seething.

We were the same, long conversations especially when he popped round and we'd speak on the 'phone usually twice a day.

I began to miss him even before he estranged us, it just wasn't the same anymore.

Well done hugshelp, I wouldn't know where to begin. You've every right to feel quite smug.

You do feel better for being up and dressed, it helps get you out of that 'I'm feeling poorly' mind set. A positive mental attitude certainly aids recovery.

Well done, Hugshelp. You sound like me with technology, finding it really difficult and frustrating to do but eventually somehow you succeed even if you aren’t sure how you managed it or if you could do it again.

And yes, there is something really not ok there. It’s like they are children trying to play house and mummies and daddies.

Golly that sounds like a very strange relationship FS and not very healthy.

Great to hear that Mr S is up and dressed. I do think it makes you feel more human.

I was very good at not turning the air blue though I confess to a fair amount of huffing and puffing. There was a lot of guesswork involved but I'm up and running, think I've installed and updated most things I need and I even got an old game DH wanted that is really hard to get hold off downloaded and installed on the old machine. It's not up to coping with t'internet now to any extent but I found a way to get his old game (which was originally on windows vista) up and running so he's chuffed and I'm feeling quite smug with myself lol.

Quite honestly he's never succeeded at saying no to her. It's no, no, no, oh, alright then. They can't be happy, can they? Not my son or yours. He doesn't seem to really have friends or any sort of life anymore. Sometimes he watches 4 or 5 films a day shut in his bedroom. What sort of life is that for such a young one.

When they came round together I didn't use to enjoy it. Apart from costing me money what was I meant to say to conversations like they had. They once sat there and in detail told me about all the recent arguments they had had all involving food. Or they talked about whoever she knows who had done something to annoy her recently. Or they debated yet again over certain films and certain exam subjects in a no that one is better, no that one is better way. Or made very uncomfortable comments about domestic violence that they claimed were jokes but didn't feel like jokes. Or she'd be saying things to or about him that made me feel really ill at ease. He use to say he didn't want to change her, he just needed to grow her up a bit but it seems it is him that has become less mature instead.

Before her he and I use to have long conversations on the phone while he was out walking about a huge range of topics. I felt like I missed him last year even when he was right there. I didn't recognise this person he had become.

Our ES used to say no, then he stopped and here we are, estranged from our son and only GC and there he is, with only occasional contact with his brother and estranged from every other member of his family.

I know it’s her that demands all these meals out and takeaways. I have seen him try to say no but in the end even if it’s their last penny she gets her way. But that’s no excuse. It seems he will do anything to try and make her happy including effectively steal off me and leave me without food. And yes, I agree he does need to grow up.

It would appear that your son is lacking in emotional maturity as well as emotional energy FlyingSolo.

It's hardly surprising that you're angry. To have had the money you gave, that left you short squandered on an unnecessary spending spree is not something that will be easy to come to terms with, if ever.

You've done well to get yourself sorted out financially even though it's still a struggle.

Hope you're managing your new PC hugshelp and the air isn't too blue.

Starlady, that’s odd but that is just what he said. He hasn’t got the emotional energy. They aren’t married yet but are planning a wedding for later this year. I think he thinks that getting married will make them happier. But I can’t get over they took my money and left me without for food while going on a massive spending spree on meals out and takeaways themselves. I am so angry. He knew it was money I couldn’t afford and that I was relying on him paying me back when he got paid. At least I have got myself straight again with money now even though it is still a bit of a struggle financially.

Oh, hugshelp, that cartoon must have hurt! I suppose the message was that you (general) don't have to keep in touch with hurtful people just b/c they're "family." But I get your finding the glee in it disconcerting. Of course, I doubt the young lady who posted it realized the negative effect it might have on some people.

Meanwhile, good luck w/ your new PC!

We always manage to find humour in most things Starlady and a good laugh really lifts your spirits doesn't it.

He's doing really well considering it's only a week since he had his op. I suggested he get dressed today which he has done and says he feels a bit more like his old self which is wonderful.

He's asked me to pass on his thanks for all your good wishes and like me, thinks it's wonderful that so much care and support can be received from people we've never met.

Ellj, just want to add that I understand how you can end up thinking of your EGC when you are w/ the GC you have contact with. However, I hope that at those times, you can find a way to just focus on those GC, their accomplishments, and the good time you're having. The years pass so quickly, as you have noted yourself. Please treasure every moment with your DSs and GC. You deserve the joy.

Good luck with setting up your new PC hugshelp. I have to get Mr. S. to do all things technical and yes, he's been known to turn the air blue so you're not alone.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you and looking forward to seeing you 'on the other side'.

Oh, Smileless, I just saw your post about being knackered and having to do the things Mr. S usually does. IMO, most of us get into patterns we take so for granted that we're not aware of them until they are disrupted (NOT saying you take Mr.S for granted). Lucky for Mr.S, you appreciate all he does, LOL, and I hope he is back to himself again sooner rather than later (not just so that he can do his usual chores, LOL)

Good to see that you're having laughs together despite the difficulties! Good also that your dogs bring so much joy and comfort!

3nanny, glad that you find comfort in your dogs, as well! I was going to suggest counseling just to help you cope w/ your estrangement, but perhaps the dogs are enough.

FlyingSolo, IMO, you are still in the early days of estrangement. This may just be what some people call an adult "time out." ES (estranged son) may be taking time to sort things out in his own mind and heart and try to solve his marriage issues. He may simply not have the energy to deal w/ anyone else right now, not even his own mum. Not really fair to you, I know, and sad b/c you could offer comfort, etc. But still, that may be all it is. If you give him the "space" he wants, he may reach out to you after a while. I hope so.

At the other end of the spectrum, Ellj, oh dear, 24 years! It must feel as if there is a constant void in your life that you can't fill! My heart aches for you! While I'm glad that DH has moved on, I understand that you can't. I'm sorry this has hurt your marriage on top of everything else, however. Have you tried counseling to help you cope w/ the situation?

IMO, it is very kind and loving of you not to speak about this situation anymore to your DSs. But, clearly, you need to talk to someone. I'm glad you reached out here and agree with others that you will find much support here.

I think other posters have given you excellent advice, especially Smileless (beautiful posts, Smileless!). About wills, just want to add that if an AC chooses to estrange themselves, IMO, they should also realize they may be disinherited. In fact, one would think they wouldn't want to inherit their parents assets if they didn't want to have their actual parents in their life. I understand you still might want to leave ED (estranged daughter) something, and I think you have been given some very good suggestions on how to do that. But please don't feel bad about leaving more/all to your DSs. They are there for you. Sadly, ED chose not to be.

I am really sorry you have nobody to give you a hug FS - I wish I could. It's not pathertic, but it is very sad. It reminds me how lucky I am that I do have some people in my life to give me the comfort of hugs.

So glad Mr S is doing well smiles I like your ideas on the will thing, thank you.

I was just on facebook and came across a cartoon on a young lady's page. Not someone I know as such, but we bumped into her and her friends on our outing yesterday. As I was taking photos she asked me to take some of her and her friends so I did and took her FB details to send them.
The cartoon was someone saying, 'family matters even if they hurt you' then saying, 'sod that, no it doesn't' and gleefully burning what looked like a pile of letters. Now I know people can cause deliberate hurt and there is certainly a line that can be crossed. But I think most of us will have been hurt by someone we love at some time and realise they didn't mean to and it will soon be forgotten. I guess I'm reading too much into it but it just felt almost cultish to have a gleeful cartoon on the subject. The girls seemed lovely and no doubt would have a totally different perspective, it just astounds me how much I am bumping into something like this lately.

This PC is on it's last legs and I have a new one coming later today. I was very brave and bought an inexpensive refurb which means a bit of extra work setting up and probably no instructions, so fingers crossed I see you all again on the other side! (dh is going out with his brother - he knows how his sweet wife can turn the air blue when battling technology!)

Thanks Starlady.

Oh I see well in that case here's a BIG (((hug))) for you FlyingSolo.

Thank you, Smileless and Starlady. No, Smileless, I meant it sounds so pathetic that I have no one to give me a hug.

Smileless, so glad Mr. S is home and doing well. You must both be so relieved and happy.

PF, so very sorry to hear about DH. Glad DD is staying in contact now, but sorry DH's illness had to be her wakeup call. Regardless, hope you see the GDs soon.

FlyingSolo, sending virtual hugs!

You can leave a smaller amount to your ES hugshelp so he isn't disinherited and there will be more to help your DD.

You could do what we're doing, leave a few personal items rather than a financial inheritance.

I'm glad you had a lovely day with your DD and s.i.l..

Do you mean your user name "seems quite pathetic" FlyingSolo? I disagree, I think it's rather positive; you're flying solo.

Rosecarmel, thank you. Hadn't realised until I saw the name. Seems quite pathetic now it has been brought to my attention. Still feeling sorry for myself isn't going to help but it does go some way to explaining why I feel as bad as I do. I suppose I am going to really notice next time I get one/give one now.

Well, geez, if you lived near by I'd be more than happy to give you a hug!

Hugshelp, what a lovely name you have chosen. They really do, don't they. Now I have seen your name I have realised I haven't had one since November, maybe even October. No wonder I feel so dreadful.

Anyway, I am pleased to hear you had a good day. I understand what you mean about your DDs partner and your son. Even good things can be bittersweet in these situations, can't they. I hope you have a restful night after your long day.

PS: Hey rosecarmel remember that time when ..

Yes, I remember-

It was bothersome, but comforting to have yet someone else get the wrong impression of me, having done so myself more times than I can count probably-

I said something nice about someone in another thread and they bit my head off-

Ya just never know ..