*SUPPORT* for all who are living with estrangement

Thank-you Smileless2012 you are so right my daughter gives no contact I cannot see the GC, and yet she can call her sister wanting gifts from me.
I did not make a big issue of things with my eldest daughter as it can cause ripples within the family situation as it is a little complicated that they have there ongoing relationship.
I am putting a guess to this but I imagine the children had no idea where the new clothing came from and who indeed had bought it all.
In fact the birthdays that are approaching early next month are going to be uncelebrated by me as after all why keep buying gifts when I do not see the GC.
I will take a leaf out of my daughters book being "Out of sight Out of mind."
So very cruel for the children in the middle of it all.

Keep pressing for a date for Mr. S's surgery, perhaps the surgeon will be back at work and you may have only a short notice to be called to the hospital.

You couldn't make it up could you 3nanny. Your D has nothing to do with you, wont let you see your GC but is happy enough for you to buy gifts. I wonder if the children know who the gifts are from.

I understand your anger FlyingSolo, it's horrible to feel that your kindness has been taken advantage of; you feel as if you've been used.

No 'phone call about Mr. S.'s date for surgery yesterday so he'll ring on Monday.

It makes me so angry to think of all I handed over last year.

Agnurse, yes if you are talking in general then I agree with Flying Solo and perhaps some people would see that as returning gifts could be contact.

In response to my post where I sent my Christmas gifts to grand-children which were delivered to her by my eldest daughter I know they were accepted and she used the clothing etc, for the children. In fact my eldest daughter telephoned me twice asking if I had bought the usual clothing for the children as her sister was moaning that as usual mother could not be bothered to send any presents.

My dear brother who is supportive of what she has put me through had one thing to say and was angry that she had the cheek to even ask her sister to see if any presents were at my house. He told me to ask her where my presents had got to.

Agnurse, you may be right if you are talking generally. But if you are saying that in response to what I said it isn't the case in my situation.

One comment about gifts: if they are not returned it doesn't mean they are accepted. Some people view returning gifts as contact. They practice what's known as "black holing" - everything goes into a black hole, but nothing comes out. The gifts may well have been donated or tossed. It's not always accurate to assume that no return means the gifts were accepted.

So sorry for Mr S smileless
I'm so sorry to hear all you have been through flyingsolo

It was the constant negative feedback on my behaviour that was causing me the most damage. But I know it is how she talks to him. I know he was constantly being told to f off back here and that nobody wants him there and when he tried to make a stand and return here for the night she told him he was reminding her of her abusive ex. I do not know if her ex really was abusive or just wouldn't put up with her treating him badly. After all my son wasn't doing anything except coming here and telling her he would be back the next day. And so she took off leaving a concerning note and her ring, told a friend he had left her properly, refused to answer calls from anyone and had to be found by the police. And her mother didn't bat an eyelid at this carry on. I think it has damaged his confidence and belief in himself and, like I said, instead of standing up to her he passes the abuse along and does it to me.

Rhinestone, I'm glad you got a TY for the birthday card you sent in 2018. But unless it includes a gift, one doesn't really have to send a TY for a card, surely? So I wouldn't think too badly of it if he doesn't send them for most cards.

The "thinking of you" cards sound like a lovely way to keep the door open w/o specifically seeking a reply. I do hope that one day you will get one, even if it's just a "thinking of you, too" note. If it were me, I admit, I would have sent one or two of these notes, then assumed that my AC gets the idea and, ike your DH, stopped sending them. But if it makes YOU feel better to continue, I totally understand. I'm glad it helps.

Thanks Starlady; they haven't 'phoned yet!

Oh, just saw your more recent post, Smileless. Hope the new date is soon!

Smileless, so sorry that Mr.S.'s op was cancelled! How frustrating!

FlyingSolo I read your post about your son and his partner being willing to accept gifts if they are sent. After also reading all the other posts after that it gave me the bigger picture of what has been happening. I fully sympathize with the unacceptable behaviour of them both and it is sad to hear that you are at your wits end and would feel safer without any contact from them. One thing you are right about when you say that your son has tried to contact you in the last two months you know why it is because he wants money or something from you. I kept allowing my estranged daughter to get away with that sort of thing for a long time, and it took me far too long to realize that all the calls to visit the grand-children had hidden meaning and when I got to her house it was always to hand out money as she never had any. I stopped handing over money and just bought the groceries nappies and paid off electric bills and questioned nothing. Yes it took me too long to come to terms with the fact that all the taking would not stop so when I asked her to start doing a budget list and letting me know her money and outgoings so we could have some kind of financial plan set up which was a while ago she began to get very obstinate towards me claiming I wanted to know all her business and I was sticking my nose into her financial affairs. Just like you I do feel a bit of relief in regard of all the money I spent on her as I did not want to do that forever so when she went no contact it gave me a breather even though I missed the grand-children very much.

Without going on too much firstly you must visit your G.P and tell him/her how you have anxiety and also panic attacks which is what you have when your son is trying to call you and you say you just try and hide. You must not be afraid in your own home and with some help from your G.P. you will get into a better frame of mind and feel stronger, once that happens you have to take a stand about the bullying which in fact is a mild form of domestic abuse and if you are harassed and abused for money and anything else then you will have to contact the police and raise your concerns with them, one thing for sure you need to get off the roller-coaster which is having a detrimental effect on your health both physically and emotionally.
Sorry such along post.

Thanks for clarifying that Rhinestone. I'm glad that you feel better for trying.

My psychologist said to send “ thinking of you “ statements in the cards or emails. Or “ I’m here when you are ready to talk.” She said it’s showing love and concern. Even if they don’t respond . Just notes that are positive and light. I will see her next week and get more clarification. In 2018 I got a thank you for the birthday card I sent my son. Last year nothing. But I keep trying as it makes me feel good. My husband won’t do it anymore as he has tried. But he does put money away for the boys and his son has been taken out of our will.

Ouch!! that must have been painful Yogagirl; you really must take more water with yourgrin.

Mr. S. spoke to the hospital this morning and they said they'll 'phone sometime today with another date so fingers crossed.

It highlights the enormity of the pain and damage that estrangement brings when an EP says "I am coming round to the view that it was better when she wasn't in contact, so at least I could and just about come to terms with the situation", as you've posted PF.

I know I've said this to you before but I don't think I've said to how much I admire your courage Yogagirl. I know how much you love and missed your DS but after so long and having been through so much it does take courage to take that step of faith and start on the road to reconciliation.

I can't tell you how thrilled I am that it's going so wellx

I got a chilled down my spine when I saw that HolyHanna has found our 'SUPPORT-for-all-who-are-living-with-estrangement page I'm on page 21....

Sorry to hear Mr.S op has been cancelled I know you get all psyched up for the operation day, as I did when I broke my wrist falling over my new rescue doggie. I was on stand-by for 3 days, all gowned up and readied for surgery the next week and that was cancelled, I nearly told them not to bother with my op! Good luck to Mr.S when he does go in

FlyingSolo - I am so sorry to hear about your situation and I totally sympathise, because I am going through something similar. This is definitely an emotionally and financially abusive relationship and you would be better, if you could, to stand back from it - at least for now. I know that it is much easier said than done, but you really need to take care of yourself and value those in your life who love you and care for you.

My eldest daughter has caused nothing but upset since meeting her now DH and is estranged from both of her sisters and has cut off all of her old friends. As in your situation, she suddenly ghosted us and then there was spasmodic contact, during which period she had a baby, which she didn't tell us about. We have seen her once in three years, for lunch last year, following which she asked if she could 'borrow' some money.

A few weeks after we transferred the money, they sent us some photos of our DGD, then 14 months old, as they said it was on their conscience, as we had provided the financial assistance. The letter also said they hadn't told us before, because they didn't think they wanted us to be involved, as they only wanted her to have good relationships around her. It was a really horrible letter and designed to be as hurtful as possible.

Since then, DD has been sending lots of photos and videos of DGD1 and DGD2, who was born on Christmas Eve. We are due to visit shortly, but DH has just been diagnosed with a serious form of cancer, so I am not sure that we will be able to go now.

To be honest, I am coming round to the view that it was better when she wasn't in contact, so at least I could and just about had come to terms with the situation. SIL has poisoned DD against her family so he is bound to do the same with the DGDs and a part of me would prefer not to be involved. I really don't want to be hurt again. DH's illness has made me see things in far greater perspective.

So my advice is to try to treasure each day and the good things in your life. Your DS may well be back in the future - I believe that he will be - but for now, just get on with your life and do what's best for you

I fell into that trap already, of trying to excuse her behaviour as immaturity. So did he. He use to say he didn't want to change her but he just needed to grow her up a bit. Now he has history of making really bad choices when it comes to girls and he may learn to be a decent man yet. But I have to admit that I have reached the conclusion that I have never personally known anyone who is as badly behaved and uncaring with such a spoilt entitled attitude as this girl. I am sorry to sound so, whatever the word is, but I have such strong feelings about how she treats him and how they have treated me.

Oh crikey! She's still a teenager! And he's not that much older, I take it? That puts a different face on it, doesn't it? Immaturity! Maybe extreme immaturity. I'm NOT defending them. I'm NOT for one minute suggesting you open yourself up to them again. But please take heart in knowing that they may mature over time, and if so, may genuinely make amends. But I doubt that will happen for a long, long time (as in, don't hold your breath). And if/when it does, you can't trust it unless it begins w/ a heartfelt apology for all they've put you through.

They aren't married yet. Note the yet. They plan to. I think they almost have to marry to see that won't fix it either. I think it is clear what keeps them together. He is frightened of losing the baby (and possibly of her temper) and she is frightened of losing him and being alone and unloved and of being a single parent. She told me she had felt unwanted and unloved all her life. Actually I think adulthood scares them. Her especially. And he seems to think this nonsense with her is just what adult life is like , having to look after her and please her. As I said they are extremely young. She is still a teenager. We couldn't even play a board game without having to let her win. You should have seen how she reacted, getting her temper up, because we had both managed to throw a 6 and get our counters out before she had managed to. Neither of us dared to send her piece back to the start when we had to pick one. Yes, I do know how ridiculous that sounds.

Very sad, Flying, very sad. I know it must hurt you to see the way your son is treated and how he doesn't stand up for himself. That's his choice, of course, and clearly, something is holding them together if they have tried to break up but just, somehow, couldn't. Yes, they will always be connected through their child, but they could still divorce if they both made up their minds to do it. As painful as it is for you to think about, once again, there are their issues/decisions. Please just continue to protect yourself and, of course, reach out to us.

And thank you for your support. It has been appreciated.

She doesn't get on with anyone by the sounds of everything she's told me. I don't believe they will ever sort out their relationship. They were always nearly breaking up. I can't put too much detail here and give examples in case someone recognises us. But how she treats him is wrong. However instead of standing up for himself he has instead took it out on me. And now they are parents. There is no good answer to any of this now. It feels unfixable. Maybe he will see sense when the baby copies her behaviour and tells him to f off or whatever other choice words or put downs that the baby has heard its mother tell its father.