*SUPPORT* for all who are living with estrangement

Yes you've certainly had a lot of misfortune to deal with, domestic abuse (now includes emotional and financial abuse by definition), loss of a baby, loss of an adult son, and now threatened loss of a baby grandchild. You're totally normal if you feel pain about these things. I really hope happiness comes your way soon!

So sorry for your loss 40something. That’s heartbreaking.

you’ve a road ahead of you so be assured of the good wishes ...and prayer..it that is acceptable?....Of the grandsnet community..

But with the correct help you’ll cope once again and life will be not just so hard. Hold onto that thought. You deserve no less.

Sorry meant to say I am going to look at counselling also, as there are a few issues I need help with...... I think I'm dealing with multiple sorrow and low self esteem so could do with some direction

Thank you all for reaching out to me, I'm so sorry to hear that you all have difficulties too..... its a very difficult path to be following.

It's all quite complicated to be honest and all very fractured. I'm trying to take a day at a time, I've just started swimming again which I really enjoy.

This week is a difficult one for myself and partner as we had a little boy 8 years ago this week, who was born sleeping so my emotions are all over the place.

The thing is, your son is only 21. That means he doesn't have his full range of adult understanding yet. As time goes by he may develop a much more balanced view of people and some empathy towards you. I've kind of given up hoping my son will change as he's in his 40s now, but yours still has a lot of hope of maturation. If you can avoid doing anything that will prove his current opinion correct, his opinion may change a lot by the time he's in his 30s for instance.

So in effect you were an abused woman within your relationship?
Have you had professional help with that.?
If not, think about getting some help now. Relate are good. You need to look after yourself because no one else is. If you're carrying hurt from a past relationship you can't do it alone and what you're going through just now will be so so sore. I'm very sorry.
Please get help from relate or a similar agency.

Once you see clearly again ...and this takes time....you'll know how to handle all this hurt.
Keep posting here...smileless, dolce ,and a few others are very good with advice. Be kind to yourself.

I bet you're hurting almost as much from your sister picking up the baby in front of you when you were told you couldn't and feel as if not only are you missing out on your son and grandchild but also your sister might not be loyal to you so you have aggravating circumstances. Do you think she knew you'd been told not to or did she do it in innocence? What do you think might have happened if while your sister was holding the baby you'd casually held out your arms and said "oh lets have a hold". Would she have handed her to you or do you think she might have already been told not to let you? Were your parents allowed to hold the baby?

See in this situation your feelings are probably exacerbated by "odd one out" syndrome as it looked to you like you were being singled out for special treatment. How is your relationship with your sister usually? Is there some long-standing rivalry or tension between you?

Thank you all for reaching out to me..... so heartbreaking reading the posts on here sending my thoughts to you all.

This is my story my son is 21 he met his partner 2 years ago.... he moved in with her and her parents address unknown. Sporadic contact by texts etc over that time but he literally walked out of my life, he contacted me to say I was going to be a Nan and their daughter, my granddaughter was born last year. I was told I couldn't visit the family home as not fair to her parents constantly having visitors (at that time myself and partner living with my in laws waiting for our house to be built) invited them numerous times to come there or to meet up when convenient to them but was told I could only see their daughter at my parents home which was very difficult due to work etc I work shifts. And the visits are around every 10 weeks or so..... finally a few months ago he asked me to go to my parents and meet them there, i was so happy as I wasn't working and could make it, I went alone and it was the most traumatic day. I was told by his partner that I couldn't hold their daughter although everyone else was able to in front of me - my sister happily walked in and picked her up in front of me. I was devastated. My sister has got involved and seemingly believes every word they say. I feel so bereft, I have no support from my family and don't want to bring my friends down either. My parents just watched this all and didn't say a word. I asked if I could post a photo on my social media as I would never do this without permission but understandably and their choice but was told no, but my family are allowed to post photos. So sorry to ramble on but I'm hurting very badly at the moment.

My son's father was verbally abusive, my son sees his father regularly its just me and my partner. A few weeks ago his partner told me my son is not interested in seeing me. Thank you for listening

Hi 40somethingmum, so very sorry for the situation you are in. Although we are not estranged, we worry about this terribly. The darkness that surrounds you will be unbearable. I do hope posting on here helps you or at least lets you know, you are in no way alone in suffering this horrible situation. Try to take each day as it comes and never lose hope that things can change, for the better!

Lots of support and sensible advice here 40something so keep reading and you will get help.

It took me two years of reading before I could post so I fully understand your feelings.
Absolutely awful situation to be in and you really need to walk that mile yourself before you truly understand.

Of course you'll also get some negative posts too.
Don't let them get to you.

It's the helplessness that gets to me. I want to sit my family member down and have a chat tell them just how much they are loved....

Been advised not to do that.....not my way at all of solving problems......but the situation is hampered by historical
"NC".
So we as a family ...on the face of it.......support each other and just get on with it. Draining.....

I'm catching up with this thread and can assure you 40somethingmumthat people will support you and help you through this dark place you find yourself in.

I am looking forward to my DD and DGS coming for Christmas. As many of you know, it's my SiL who has estranged himself from me, but acknowledges that my DD is entitled to see me. He moves out when I visit them, which isn't very often as they don't live in the UK.

Do you live alone 40something? Do you have other family and friends who can support you? You will certainly get support here from others who understand how you're feeling.

Hi 40somethingmum, welcome to this thread! I expect the upcoming xmas season is not helping your mood. It always reminds us of who we've lost. Do you have any other children or grandchildren?

Hi all, I've joined this forum as struggling to deal with the estrangement from my son and granddaughter..... feel very alone and in a dark place at moment

I'm pleased you were able to express your fear of loosing your GC for a second time Dolcelatte. I think that demonstrates that you are more secure in this reconciled relationship then you sometimes feel.

It would have been a difficult thing for you to say and for her to hear.

For me, the ultimate responsibility for our estrangement lies with our ES, that said, she's a big player and I honestly don't believe this would have happened if he hadn't married her, or some one just like her.

Your s.i.l. does have responsibility for the estrangement; maybe like us, if she'd married someone else this wouldn't have happened. The fact that he uses 'ghosting' to exert control over your DD, his wife and his own mother, clearly demonstrate his unquestionable involvement.

I need to say again how much I admire your courage D, I'm pretty certain I wouldn't be able to do what you're doing if I were ever given the opportunity.

Thank you so much Mad, Ready and Smile, for your extremely pertinent remarks, as well as your support.

I understand, Ready, the loss of trust. I don't say that it can never be rebuilt, just that it will be difficult. I totally identify with the hanging back in terms of contact. Basically, the spontaneity has gone. If it is my turn to reply, I feel better, because I am not waiting for her to reply and worrying why she hasn't replied, or when she will reply, or if I've said the wrong thing. I feel safe, less vulnerable. Smileless, I think that's where you are coming from too. Of course, when you hear of a close family member's joy, you wonder if you can salvage something of your lost relationship, but the fear of a second rejection is too great. You put yourself out there, heart on the line, make yourselves vulnerable to a second attack. So logic takes over and you say, no, I would be mad to risk a course of action which would shatter my fragile equilibrium, and yet.. and yet..maybe one day, some day, I will be strong enough to take that risk.

One of the things which I have already said to DD is that I can't risk going through the same pain of losing my DGC - once is enough for anyone's lifetime - that I would prefer not to get involved now, that I am afraid of loving DGDs. DD assured me that wouldn't be the case, but even if SIL isn't outwardly hostile, I have no doubt that he regards the DGCs as 'his', so we will only to be allowed to see them on his terms, whatever they might be, and he will be looking for things to criticise. It's inevitable and I accept it, but I will never allow him or either of them to use emotional blackmail to try to obtain financial or other advantage over us. I will need to monitor the situation carefully and play it by ear. The harsh reality is that I need to be cautious, as do we all.

Smileless, I think you are absolutely right about the prodigal son analogy. When I seek to put blame on SIL for what has happened, they get annoyed with me, as they think I am in denial about DD1's role in this, that I am too available and open to her, that I should have more self respect, basically, that I am too forgiving. I certainly think that there is some truth in this and that if we chase our EAC too much, it gives them a feeling of power. That said, I do blame SIL - perhaps because it is easier for me to cope with - but also these weapons of silence and 'ghosting' - which I regard as cruel, cowardly, and contemptible - are his weapons of choice. I have known him to use them on my DD and his own DM. There is no getting away from the fact that DD has gone along with these tactics but she is still young and, of course, he is her DH.
However, I do sense a growing maturity - at least with DD - and this co-dependency, this total acceptance of everything SIL says, will be tested by the inevitable bumps in the road which life throws at us. Few, if any, situations remain static. That is something which I feel it is important to bear in mind. Nothing is forever, even if it may often seem like it.

I totally understand ReadyMeals when you say when you "think of trying harder to get back in touch with him something stops me".

I haven't thought about doing so for ages but yesterday Mr. S. and I were talking about how 7 years seems to be a bench mark. It's a long time, maybe long enough for things to be able to change. I actually muted the idea of sending him a Christmas card.

Then we got the call from Mr. S's sister about her first GC being born and how she'd held her in her arms for an hour while she slept and (((bang))) the shutters came down.

In the first 8 months of our GC's life, one hour was probably the sum total of time I got to hold him. So the voice in my head changed from 'should we send him a card' to 'what's wrong with you? What are you thinking? Are you insane? How could you ever trust him again? You barely got through it, how could you ever cope if he did it again?'

So no, we wont be sending him a Christmas card. Maybe in another 7 years; who knows.

We both ended up in fits of laughter hugshelp especially when he saw I was typing after he'd mentioned the Sargent's uniform because I knew I was on this thread and I'd be telling you all.

Laughter that was much needed after the tears shed earlier.

There's still so much you need to process D and you're doing extremely well. It's so sad that this imminent happy occasion is overshadowed by the past.

Are you wallowing in self pity? I don't think so, you're still trying to come to terms with all that you have missed and the pain you've experienced. There are I'm sure some wonderful and happy times ahead but you'll never be able to erase those painful memories.

It does look as if your s.i.l. is a 'lost cause' so perhaps you should accept this, keep your distance from him as much as possible and concentrate on your DD and DGD's.

I'm sorry that your DD3 has been upset by the coolness of her sisters' response. Maybe for now for your DD1 to try and reconnect would be too much. Perhaps she's concentrating on her relationship with her mum which must be difficult with her H being hostile toward you. He may well be hostile when it comes to your other D's.

It's all too easy to look back and see that we've behaved in ways which would have been better not entertained. As DS lives in Aus. it has been easier I think for us to keep the majority of our pain away from him.

FT is precious and actually seeing him more so, so we've never wanted that time to be 'spoiled' by talk of his brother. That said, not wanting to discuss it with him was initiated by his initial open hostility toward us. He was taking everything his brother said as gospel and was unable to take on board what we were going through and the unfairness of it all.

There was a time when we really believed we would loose him too; he felt the same and it was then that things improved. Now, talking about the situation is rare, for his benefit and TBH for ours.

I wonder if there's a degree of resentment from siblings when their estranging brother or sister reconnects and the parents are obviously overjoyed. The parable of the 'Prodigal son' springs to mind; the returning son's brother is angry at the celebrations that mark his brother's return.

You're right that estrangement impacts on the whole family unit and it isn't necessarily that one of the parties involved wants others to take sides. The pain of it is so intense that it's virtually impossible to keep it hidden from those closest to you, especially when you interact with them on a regular basis.

You do count D or your DD wouldn't be in touch with you now and you'll count to those beautiful GD's when they get to know you, their GM.

Dolcelatte some of what you say sounds like my feelings. I think something had gone kind of cold in me some time before my DS stopped seeing me, based on something that happened that made me realise he had lied about something that was very important to me. I thought I was acting the same after it, cos I hoped things would improve to the point that sort of thing wouldn't happen again. But he did mention to one person that I was talking to him differently as if I wasn't really interested in him any more. And thats probably why he stopped seeing me. And even now if I think of trying harder to get back into contact with him something stops me. I am still angry about that thing and somewhere inside I think I can't trust him any more, so I am not doing everything I could to get back in touch with him. Unfortunately I can't really say what the things are as they are so peculiar I'd run the risk of us being identified, especially as bits of these threads get published in other media

Dolcelatte your insight and honesty about your situation, your ability to think about what is best from others perspective despite your own pain are all so admirable! I am so sorry for what you are going through.

I'm ok, thanks Smileless, had a couple of bad days this week. I think a lot of it is down to uncertainty. GDD2 could be born any day now - DD thinks she will be early. All I want is for her and the baby to be safe and well, but I wonder when I will be told the news, probably after she has already had it, which is making me anxious.

I asked DD some time ago to let me have SIL's mobile number and to make sure he had mine, in one of our now regular texts, but this was ignored in her reply. I feel that I want to jump on the next train as soon as I hear news and go to see them, not to invade their space or to be insensitive and I would never go without asking. But I know that SIL will, at best, tolerate me and that I am not really welcome by him or ever likely to be. Also, I expect that his parents will be on the scene immediately, not least because I assume that they will be looking after DGD1 when DD goes into labour, so it would be awkward to meet them for the first time in those circumstances. DD would also almost certainly feel awkward and anxious at a time when she should be happy and without any concerns other than her new-born.

So, I will in all probability stick to the original plan of going in January, when she and baby should be more settled. She lives over 300 miles away so it is not as though I could pop round anyway. But it feels so unnatural that I, as her mother, should not be told anything or feel awkward and unnatural. Surely the birth of a baby should be a time for spontaneity and joy, bringing the family together. As the day approaches, however, I just feel upset at what I have already missed and the fragility of it all, that I don't count, that she can do very well without me, just as she did last time.

To be fair, DD seems to be making a big effort to reconcile with regular updates and photos etc, but a part of my heart has frozen over and I am not experiencing the joy that I feel I should.

I know this is back to the familiar territory of wallowing in self-pity. DD had a birthday this week and we exchanged greetings etc. She was spending it with her in-laws, as she spends every birthday, Christmas and New Year, and doubtless the DGDs will spend all of their birthdays there too.

DD3 reached out to DD1 on her birthday and sent her a message including 'I love you', which I thought was brave, to which she received a friendly reply with a few kisses, but no 'I love you', so she was very upset. She says she will continue to send birthday messages once a year but doesn't want a relationship. She says DD1 is a stranger to her and sends cold and impersonal messages. I tried to sympathise by saying I understood how she felt as I had experienced similar. This went down badly, as DD3 said that she and DD2 loved me and supported me, always had and always would, and yet I spend too much time being upset by DD1, even though she treats me so badly, that I was making it all about me and should get some more counselling. And she is probably right, which makes me feel even more of a shit mother, leading to more guilt and wallowing. I was actually on holiday at the time, so it did take some of the gloss off it, but then after one or two bad days, I usually have good ones. The bad ones are becoming fewer, so it must be progress, but it made me realise that I still have a distance to go, and also that I must be more vigilant in not relying on other family members, especially DD2 and DD3, it just isn't fair on them. That's the thing about estrangement, it's not just one relationship which is fractured, it's the whole family unit which is impacted. And then I think well maybe DD1 doesn't see us as part of the family unit any longer, now that she has what they like to refer to on Mumsnet as 'your own little family'. But surely family should also include the extended family such as uncles, aunts, grandparents, siblings, cousins etc.

Anyway, I like the idea of the Bentley, Smileless. One of our friends has a very old classic Bentley, which he has driven us in a couple of times, and it is absolutely gorgeous. So go on, spoil yourself, you deserve it!

Oh gosh Smileless, lovely to hear your SILs news but so hard when you make the comparison. Lol Mr S is having fun there isn't he!

Now he's looking at Jags oh hang on a minute he's just found a Sargent's Uniform; mid life crisis or what!!!

OMG Mr. S. has just asked me how I feel about splashing out on a Bentley 2009 Continental for £23,000; just dashing to find something appropriate on Netflix.

Mr. S. and I are going to find something dark and disturbing to watch on Netflix to cheer ourselves up.

Aw thank you Dolcelatte, you're very kind. How are you doing? Are you feeling more settled and looking forward to the New Year when you'll see you D and GD's?