*SUPPORT* for all who are living with estrangement

That must be really difficult for you, Smileless, and so courageous, noble and kind of you to share the joy of your SIL, when it must bring back such painful memories. Sending big hugs.

Three days ago Mr. S.'s. sister became a GM for the first time. Wonderful news and of course we are overjoyed for her and her family.

She told us today that she'd been to see her DD and the baby and held her for an hour as she slept in her arms after a feed.

Tomorrow is our youngest GC's birthday, he shares his birthday with his GF Mr. S. We've never seen him and I realised today after speaking to my s.i.l. that in the 8 months we did have contact with our eldest GC, the sum total of time I probably held him in my arms, was one hour.

Thanks Hugshelp. I had quite a dramatic pvd some years back. I thought I retina had exploded, but it turned out just a bog standard pvd

hugshelpthat must be a real worry for you.

So pleased you had a lovely evening with your DD.

Congratulations Ready, and sorry about the situation. x
Sorry not been on much, had to rush to A and E with lightning flashes and floater showers in my one 'goodish' eye. Turns out I have a posterior vitreous detachment. Still incomplete so having to pop back to get it checked whenever it plays up some more. I have so many eye problems I'm really scared of losing my sight altogether so feeling very stressed.
On a positive note we had a lovely evening with DD for her birthday. We took round fish and chips and cake (as requested) and had a games night, pressies, and watched apprentice together.

Thank you Dolcelatte x

Congratulations Ready! X

Thank you Smileless Yes she is gorgeous!

Sorry you've been feeling unwell Namsnanny. I'm on anti biotics at the moment due to an infection and like you, I've wondered if I'm susceptible as November is a particularly bad month for us.

Although we've all done it, and despite how long our estrangements go on for, continue to do so from time to time, there's no point in looking for the reasons why Cherries, you may as well bang your head against a brick wall, and make your head hurt that way.

Enjoy every moment of contact with your GC and try not to let your fears of maybe never seeing them again, spoil the moment. You are making memories for you and for them, and God forbid that contact is severed, they'll remember you.

Readymeals how I remember that pain, when we learned that our 2nd GC had been born and knew that we'd never be able to see him.

It was so good of the other GP's to let you know and send you photo's; that must have been hard, I'm so sorry.

There's a beautiful, healthy baby out there; your GC so congratulationsand a BIG (((hug))) x

Sorry to hear that Ready sounds like the other GPs understand which may be a small comfort.

So sad that you won’t see this grandchild- yet. Don’t give up hope that things can come good eventually and be glad that t’other grandparents are sympathetic and ready to send photos.

I've just had another grandchild I will probably never meet. The other grandparents respected me enough to let me know and send some photos, but I have to pretend I don't know or they will get into strife from their daughter who in turn would get into trouble from my son. They're not even together any more, this happened behind the back of my son's current partner who he lives with. Anyway since I can't tell everyone who knows me as I want to respect the other grandparent's need for secrecy, I am posting here anonymously so I might get a few congratulations at least :D

Tbh, I don’t see what incentive DIL has to have a heart to heart with you. It’s pretty clear you dislike one another. You will never be close. You can at most tolerate one another for short period of times, somewhat begrudgingly. I’m sure from her perspective she’s doing her very best to tolerate you and you wanting to sit down and discuss all of the reasons why you two don’t get along would likely be the end of the begrudging tolerance. You can’t make her like you. That’s not in your control. You are best off accepting that and just trying to make the best of what time you do have with your son and grandkids.

Wise and sound advice - thanks very much, Namsnanny. Unless DiL decides to risk a heart to heart conversation with me, I suppose that there is little point to my continuing to try to search for meaning, to solve the mystery and to make unreciprocated effort to be reconciled.
I wish you better soon

I'm sorry I haven't posted much lately. I have a particularly nasty virus (possibly read ALL about in the health section so no need to elaborate here ….. Thank goodness for that you all sigh ).
At the same time some important family anniversaries occur for me between oct and jan, and I wonder is it coincidence or just bad luck that my body has become as 'invaded' with germs as my mind is 'invaded' with misery?

So I've just been feeling sorry for myself and no use to anyone.
Love to everyone, wishing you all well.

Oh Thank you OutsideDave I hope its of some use.

Fantastic advice, namsnanny!

Cherries … I would seek solace by talking this over with a counsellor, or possibly trying yoga to find a way to calm myself, if I were you.

The reason being there is no way of knowing how speaking to them will turn out!

If you can find a way to 'handle' your reactions to the way your dil and son are behaving whilst in your company, you may be able to take the sting out of the situation.
By that I mean you wont focus on changing their reactions to you, but your reactions to there negativity may be different and leave you feeling some what detached from them and therefore less anxious or hurt by them.

I'm not very good at explaining myself so I hope you can understand precisely what I'm suggesting!

To be honest I wish I had been able to understand that helping myself cope with the situation between me and my AC and partner, and not trying to solve it, was a solution of sorts.
Feeling the need to sort things out and talk openly only lead to more injustice and intolerance unfortunately.

Now I realise they can and will interpret my behaviour according to their own bias (as we all do) and I shall never be able to convince them otherwise.

So in retrospect, what I should have done, was find someone with more emotional intelligence than I (psychotherapist etc.?)and work out how to look after myself.

In this way I wouldn't have put my self under more pressure to remedy the unhappy situation.

This all sounds a bit selfish I know.
Looking after yourself and not concentrating on their feelings is opposite to the way one normally thinks of dealing with the people we love.

Having suggested seeing someone, I found its been extremely difficult trying to find a therapist who can help my situation.

It's late and I my be rambling!

I’m interested in your repeated reference to your DIL being overly controlling and uptight. It would be easier to advise if you could offer some examples.

Thanks again, Nonnie, and thank you too Madgran77 for offering the possibility of private discussion.

I realise that I am fortunate in being allowed to see my GC, for the time being at least. Having said that, I am also very aware of the fashionable trends of suddenly cutting off grandparents altogether without good reason (where there has been no abuse or serious neglect) and of devaluing their traditional roles and am therefore half-prepared mentally for this to happen without prior warning or discussion. This is not inevitable, though, and so I imagine that I need to be wary of assuming that it is and of behaving and communicating accordingly.

PS PM me if you would like further discussion

Cherries I have concluded for myself that the numbness is just self protection in what is effectively a sort of "estrangement but not" situation because everything is always so difficult! I empathise with you

Cherries it is very hard when you are inside a situation to see it from all angles and you will get some great advice on here. I think some posters will share your experience and come at it from different points of view. My feeling, from reading so many threads, is that you should let them do things their way and try hard to go along with it. If you don't it seems to be the thing at the moment for Dils to make their DH choose between parents and her. You really don't want to put him in that position as she will almost certainly win especially if she uses the child as a weapon. I have read that on Mumsnet it is quite usual to cut off the GPs as soon as there is a disagreement so be very careful. Good luck

Thank you Nonnie. I am heeding your words of caution. Please don't apologise as you have no reason to do so. You are suggesting some angles for me to think about and perhaps explore in conversation with DS and DiL - separately or together - if it is ever possible to do so in the future. You may be partly or wholly correct in surmising what lies behind the situation but unless we can have satisfactory dialogue about it, I am left guessing. This is the problem with being on the receiving end of the "silent treatment", isn't it?

I think you need to consider things from both sides. I have very successful relationships with my Dils and that my be because I try to do things their way. I understand that life is very different now to when I was a young mum and I know I wouldn't have wanted anyone offering advice unless asked for.

Your son is in a difficult position and if you confront the situation you will make it much harder for him and he may be forced to choose.

Many on here have been completely cut off and would prefer to be in your position which, though less than ideal is a relationship. Be very careful about breaking it.

Are you retired? If so they may have assumed that you will be available when it suits them to visit. I don't think I have ever invited my family to come, they just tell me they are because they know they will always be welcome. I always suggest they look around in case I have left something harmful out and always ask them what they want me to get in especially for them.

Is it possible that dil is shy or in some other way doesn't quite know how to be in your home.

I may have got it all completely wrong so I apologise if I have but I strongly advise against any sort of confrontation, you could lose what you have.