AEC thread. Feel free to chat or add helpful resources here.

Do you mean the money raised by the church was distributed, except for a nominal amount to cover the church's overheads rosecarmel?

Yes, most do- What made this one different though was "most" went out- Enough was kept to keep the lights on so to speak but the rest went out-

Most churches, of all denominations, do community charity work for the poor and disadvantaged. Several churches in our area have a weekly doorstep food collection which is given to those in need or centralised food banks.

There are churches within churches and satellites that break from the many main churches and are each different priest to priest, preacher to preacher, teacher to teacher-

There are lots of storefront worship services in cities and wooden clapboard chapels scattered all around down south-

So estrangement occurs even with churches as they continually separate and splinter into little groups of like minded individuals-

My favorites were Sunday High Mass in Latin and a little brick church down south that did a community outreach with tithes collected to buy things for the many economically disadvantaged-

There's no mention in the Bible about "two wrongs do not make a right". Perhaps you're thinking of 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you'.

Holyhannah what I do know about Christianity as an example is that the sentiment "two wrongs do not make a right" is mentioned often and that ultimately (because I won't know for sure until the time comes) God will/would judge us for our own deeds no matter what others do to us.

And that's a sentiment I agree with because I am responsible for my own behaviour no matter what others do or say

I am generally very respectful of all religions Holyhannah and honestly I had never heard of yours so could have just thought it was silly or a joke I guess.

But I'm generally very respectful of faith so would definitely check first.

Being able to see how abusers can twist certain idealogy to suit three or needs isn't treating it as a joke. Especially if that religion has been used to abuse you. Abuse is not a joke.

I went to church with a close friend for many years and I never ended up following it myself but I did agree with a lot of the idealogy etc. It was important to her so we went. Unfortunately she is gone now but I treasure that she shared an important part of her life with me even though she knew I did not have the same faith. She didn't once judge me or put any pressure on me and I went by choice

Starblaze -- As I have said, I take my religion seriously and while I don't mind discussing it with open minded individuals, if the only 'discussion' is telling me I am wrong, then I'll skip. I just point out that while my faith may be silly/not valid to some, the same can be said of other religions regardless of popularity.

"I am glad you found a faith that doesn't allow for for abusive people to make it unrecognisable, being created when we knew that abusive people often do this and use religion to look "good". Followers of any faith must feel strongly about abusive people being part of their religion too. Ie: no faith or community wants them." -- That's the nice thing about my religion. Anyone is free to call themselves a Jedi but if you don't follow the basic tenets, no other Jedi is going to embrace you. It really is a solo religion until it is willingly shared in good faith. It also allows for accepting any moral/good person of any other religion and atheists as well. Regardless of what you call yourself, if you are not a good person what does it matter if you are Christian, Jedi, Jewish or any other faith?

You're quite right Smileless, I too remember the mocking of Christianity, thank you for reminding us. And with more than 2 billion Christians believers in the world, making it the most popular religion followed, there can be little excuse for not knowing of its existence. I've never heard of some of the more marginal religions, Jedi included until HolyHannah mentioned it.

I do have experience of childhood abuse even though I am not an EAC. As a thread on a public forum it is a place for all who wish to post here.

I don't see negation of EAC's experiences or negative talk about EAC. Holding and expressing different points of view isn't negating the experiences of others or talking negatively about those whose experiences differ.

Holyhannah I always understand what you actually say. It would be easy to read what you actually mean rather than run with a different version or twist it.

I feel awful for those abused by religion and had something that was supposed to be good twisted into excuses for their bad parents to not be accountable to them.

I am glad you found a faith that doesn't allow for for abusive people to make it unrecognisable, being created when we knew that abusive people often do this and use religion to look "good". Followers of any faith must feel strongly about abusive people being part of their religion too. Ie: no faith or community wants them.

This thread was meant for a safe space for us, not a space for people who do not have our experiences and want to negate them or otherwise talk negatively about estranged children.

A space where perfection of expression should not be expected when talking about literal trauma. Actual, awful abuse and trauma of minor children who may be still working to move past it as adults.

Not a general discussion.

I appreciate those who did allow us to have it, if they are reading this. Thank you.

The reason some thought you were joking about your religion is because they didn't realise it existed.

That said, everyone I'm sure knows that Christianity is a religion yourself included, but that didn't stop you from mocking Christianity on the 3rd of July @ 05.12 on this thread, in the P.S. section of your post.

Perhaps you don't understand Christianity or from personal experience have good reason to doubt it but that doesn't change the fact that you made ass-umption(s) about people you don't know with regard to their religion and constantly do so with regard to their estrangements.

Starblaze -- I read everything I can on the subject and still learn. I loved this one on its simplicity and some of the key lines...

1. Stop Explaining Yourself -- "They are not listening, not thinking about your point of view, and not interested in what you have to say unless it relates back to them in some way." -- Yes. In other words, if you aren't saying something THEY "want to hear" then you are 'wrong' for saying 'it'. Like calling them on their crap behavior.

2. Stop Making Yourself Vulnerable -- "The narcissistic personality sees vulnerability as weakness, period." which is true and odd to me. "But the emotionally primitive narcissist merely sees your vulnerability as an opening for manipulation, one-upmanship, or outright attack. Narcissists view life as a competition or, in more extreme cases, a war zone." -- And that explains the C-PTSD...

3. Stop Looking for Attunement -- My husband and I both wanted that from 'family' and struck out... We did find 'it' with each other. "The narcissist craves and often demands attuned attention and empathetic connection from others but does not reciprocate it. Many narcissists actively negate others as a way of feeling superior and in control." -- Well gosh, I have never 'seen' a Narc do 'that'... #sarcasm

4. Stop Expecting Them to Change -- Narc's have "delusions of superiority" and "As long as you continue to look for change, you keep yourself in the loop of neglect and abuse." -- My reality was I was 'inferior' so I always get a laugh when people say I'm a Narc and of course I was raised by one so obviously the possibility IS there... Narcissists don't No Contact with potential 'supply' available. So why am I not dangling potential contact with my children "out there" to get what I can from my 'family' and husband's That's a rhetorical question because d'uh... I'm not like my 'mom' or his.

5. Stop Excusing Them -- OMG did I ever do THAT as a child/young adult. "Like the rest of us, narcissists know right from wrong, and they know when they're hurting people. The difference between them and those with empathy and a sense of personal responsibility is that narcissists believe they are above the rules, entitled to special privileges, and justified in their bullying treatment of others."

"People who overlook or excuse narcissistic behavior normalize and embolden abusers and perpetuate trauma in those abused." -- This is the truest line of the article. Enablers are equally as gross to Me as perpetrators. The, "I never saw anybody treat you like 'that'..." folks. You know the 'type' I am sure.

Did/has anyone on GN mocked my religion? Of course not! Not because it didn't happen but because if it did? They thought I was 'joking' and therefore returned 'the joke' which is fine/normal. Upon finding out that I DO consider myself Jedi and that my religion is no more a joke to Me then Christianity is to Christians, that should be the moment a good/moral person would go, "Ahhh crap. That's what I just stepped in by making an ass-umption on my part about someone I don't 'know' and a subject I didn't know about/understand..."

There were some that inquired more about my religion and its validity and did so politely... I answered those that I hope were 'genuinely curious' politely and honestly and the detractors who called it 'made up' or 'what-ever' (I don't bother to 'log' negative) that THEY were free to feel that My religion is 'fake'. It's not 'fake' to Me and how I choose to practice My 'faith' is real.

The line comes from a very modern Star Wars movie but fits with the spirit and tenets of 'The Force' and My faith -- "I am one with 'the force' -- 'the force' is with Me."

I take that to mean, "I am 'the force' of change and I can stand to that change because 'the force' to change is within ME."

Live Long and Prosper and May the Force be with You.

Holyhannah I just really needed those reminders and didn't know it.

I wonder if I can screenshot them all and set them as a rolling wallpaper lol

Yes good thoughts and reminders.

Starblaze -- What I liked about the article is that unlike some others about 'boundaries' with a Narcissist, this one is about boundaries you need to set with yourself and the whys...

Certainly good thoughts and reminders.

Thank you Holyhannah

In my experience it's virtually impossible to set boundaries with a narcissist. They refuse to acknowledge them let alone respect them.

The only way to 'win the game' is to stop playing. If you can, remove all contact with the narcissist in your life and if it's the narcissist that's ceased all contact with you, be grateful.

www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-narcissist-in-your-life/202009/5-boundary-setting-basics-the-narcissists-in-your-life

This is a good read.

Ironflower I do think it is worth considering using that achievement to think carefully about your future, with your parents who had such a huge negative impact on your past, and potentially could have on your future.

If I could go back nearly 8 years to when we were first estranged, I'd tell us that it will be OK, you will get through this and find peace and happiness.

You have to experience it to know that really can happen. You can only hope that by sharing your eventual positive outcome you will give comfort to others going through the same thing, and even if they can't see it, they'll believe that there is a light at the end of the dark tunnel of estrangement.

I'd tell my teenage self to get all the therapy now, focus all the negative energy on your education and estrange these people asap.

But then I still went back and got myself a good education later in life and I'm a much more happy and secure person... So if that is the path I had to walk to get me here with my children and my friends and my dream job... That's fine too.

Wish I could go back and tell my teenage self that things do get better

Never mind Ironflower. You got there in the end and what an achievement, to be so happy after all that you went through!

Ironflower leaving behind the emotional baggage of an abusive childhood is not only wonderful, it's commendable because it is an extremely difficult thing to do. Especially from people who claimed to love and want what's best for you while conditioning you to accept abuse all along.

You should be so proud

I am so happy. I'm free and none of those feelings have ever come back .... That's such a positive and uplifting post Ironflower and is a good thing for anyone living with estrangement, whatever the circumstances to hear.