Why you might be estranged... aka the same theme/attitude of EP/EGP's that EAC understand.

I agree .. Many parents don't see ..

"I wonder if unicorn horns could be used to stop leaks." Maybe. We still have to find a unicorn first. LOL

If only unicorns weren't as rare as children who estrange their parents for no reason lol

The quote about "wayward daughters" in the article quoted in the OP comes from a Gransnet thread, from Gonegirl in fact.

Thread's here: www.gransnet.com/forums/estrangement/1267139-Why-are-younger-people-on-Gransnet-now?pg=2

IIRC Gonegirl doesn't identify herself as estranged and might be surprised to find how far and wide her words have apparently travelled.

muffinthemoo -- In my comment of Thu 02-Jan-20 05:32:38 I did mention that the quote was from Gransnet.

Regardless of estrangement status, the quote is an example of black and white thinking/prejudging based on who the person is in the world. That's not a healthy mind-set.

"Gaslighting is an insidious erosion of your sense of reality; it creates a mental fog of epic proportions in the twisted “funhouse” of smoke, mirrors, and distortions that is an abusive relationship. When a malignant narcissist gaslights you, they engage in crazymaking discussions and character assassinations where they challenge and invalidate your thoughts, emotions, perceptions, and sanity. Gaslighting enables narcissists, sociopaths, and psychopaths to exhaust you to the point where you are unable to fight back. Rather than finding ways to healthily detach from this toxic person, you are sabotaged in your efforts to find a sense of certainty and validation in what you’ve experienced."

blogs.psychcentral.com/recovering-narcissist/2019/03/7-gaslighting-phrases-malignant-narcissists-sociopaths-and-psychopaths-use-translated/

Which is why it's so important to 'get away' as soon as you can. It's really disturbing when you have got away, to look back and see just how paranoid you were becoming and the extent of the damage they can cause.

Gaslighting is such a nightmare! When I saw an article about it once I was blown away. It hadn't ever occurred to me that someone would do something like that and it explained my whole life x

Yennifer -- A nightmare indeed. The good news is with gaslighting and other abuse tactics is, once you learn to recognize these behaviors, they stop working on you.

As for that explaining your whole life? Mine as well. The gaslighting begins the first time you notice/question their hypocrisy and continues there-after. It's the, "Don't believe what I DO. Believe what I SAY I am doing."

HolyHannah you are so right it may as well be flashing neon signs these days x

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd6RB61JgVU&t=1s

This is a great video on Narcissistic parents.

This might be the most shocking exchange I've read...

Estranged Parent -- "I was told I wasn't OWED love."

Reply -- "OMG...no, they technically don't owe us love BUT, how about if we had have shown them NO love and just done the basics? Then, they would be saying that they were somehow cheated and hated us for not having shown them love. ROFL. How stupid of them! We couldn't win with these little twirps for losing, could we?"

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/mar/11/horrid-parents-how-survive-them-alyson-corner-angela-levin

An interesting article which isn't just informative for AC with "horrid parents" but will help anyone who finds themselves in a toxic relationship.

I particularly liked "Don't believe you are the bad person your parent claims if you are self critical tell yourself everyone makes mistakes" parent can be substituted with anyone who is making your life a misery.

Brilliant advice.

How to survive a difficult parent. My sils have difficult mums.

1. Stay calm. 2. Learn to accept your situation. 3. Don’t retaliate. Arguing back will only make things worse. 4. Look to your future with hope. You can become the person you want to be in every area of life, with or without your horrid parent’s approval. 5. Believe in yourself. Don’t believe that you are the bad person your parent claims you are.

Surely this thread should be on Mumsnet

Hi Yogagirl it's nice to hear from you. How are things going with your son? I hope all is well and you are continuing to move forward with your reconciliationx

Yogagirl -- Do not add to the perception/reality that certain people/attitudes on life, due to personal situations (abusive parents), are not welcome here aka those that identify as Estranged Adult Children (EAC).

Smileless -- What an interesting response to Yogagirl who just told EAC to "go elsewhere" -- like to MN. Previously You said, "Oh dear Starblaze still trotting out the same nasty comments about bullies I see and making false allegations; such a shame."

Starblaze's 'allegation' of feeling bullied and/or told that EAC should be/go "elsewhere" is only false IF those who identify as EP's do not say things like THAT OR EP's like You -- The non-abusive parent -- fails to condemn such comments from someone like Yogagirl. What did you say in response? "Hi Yogagirl it's nice to hear from you."

Well said Yogagirl. If anyone is unlucky enough for their son or daughter to get involved with a victim of parental abuse and that person wants mil out of the picture, this illustrates why if you that unfortunate person, take stock and move out of the picture as you are knocking your head against the wall. Know it must be hard when you want to see your the only alternative is a lifetime of anguish, I for one couldn't stand it. To see my own child involved in this scenario would be unbearable, but you can only be there when that relationship eventually ends, because it will.

Sorry for some reason this I pad just deleted the grandchildren, when I said its hard to distance your self when you want to see grandchildren.

Surely this thread should be on Mumsnet

Not really as many EAC may also be grandparents themselves! And hearing both viewpoints , as long as both are balanced by a recognition that each of us are individuals with different experiences and no assumptions that members of either group must be/behaved the same as what we have experienced ourselves, can be thought provoking

When everyone remembers to acknowledge that comments are not talking about an amorphous mass of people but only some, or some common patterns, then it works. When that is sometimes forgotten, not so much

Sometimes parents expect to directly remain a fixture in their children's lives- I'm not saying it's a mistake to expect it, but that the expectation to do so is the source of the sorrow when it doesn't turn out that way-

It isn't unhealthy for anyone to distance themselves from relationships that are harmful or exhibit in some way that they've the potential to be- When a child chooses a partner who has a history of abuse, their relationship requires more room, room that a parent may have expected to be allotted to them-

It's primal instinct to want to protect daughters and sons, an instinct that gets passed along from parents to them- So if they become involved with partners who've a history of abuse, it only stands to reason that they instinctively want to protect them too-

The space and protection provided can be an environment used for growth or to continue patterns of abuse- Either way, it's up to daughters and sons to navigate their situations- And not their parents, unless asked or that there is clear and present danger-

Such a disappointing comment! I would have thought a lot of EPs and ECs welcome balanced views or it will just be a chamber of echos with what people want to be hearing reflected back at them x

There is no other way Yennifer, if your child's partner does not want you involved that's how it will be. Far better to stand back and not beat yourself up about it, at first the parents will try and they will be bewildered and hurt as they don't want to be estranged, eventually for their own mental health, they have to walk away. I would always continue sending birthday cards and Christmas cards, also leave the grandchildren a letter in my will saying how you tried to have a relationship as you loved them very much but we're not permitted to.

Im sorry Sparkling, I was talking about Yogagirls comment and forgot to say so.

Letter in will is a terrible idea though, it will just be a massive guilt trip to grandchildren and very upsetting with absolutely no way for them to change anything. My children get upset when they get any contact at all because it's not wanted x