Why you might be estranged... aka the same theme/attitude of EP/EGP's that EAC understand.

I'm sorry I can't talk about this any more at the moment x

No. Not even when I had cancer and begged her for help x

Did your eldest or any of your other children ever have sleepovers, before you estranged your mum?

Oh no I'm estranged, a few years now, my oldest is a full grown adult and definitely too old for sleepovers now lol x

Sorry Yennifer but I'm getting a bit confused. Are you actually estranged from your mum or low contact? I'm asking because if you're estranged that would be the reason your mum hasn't been a part of the events of your children's lives you've listed.

You say "it was all about protecting us" so if your mum had wanted to have your children, her GC for sleepovers presumably you'd have refused.

I don't mean to give you the 3rd degree but sometimes I get the subtle differences between individual posters' experiences mixed up.

Please don't ever think I'm crowing about winning. I know it might sound like I won but the only battles I won were with my own issues, I lost a lot too that was irreplaceable to me. I lost the mother daughter relationship I dreamed of. I lost relationships with wider family. My children lost right from birth and every time they asked why their nan didn't bother coming to their special things at school like grandparents day or plays etc. Why their nan didn't want them for sleep overs like their friends nans. Why their nan didn't come to see them for their birthdays or come collect them from school. I didn't win with my mother, I lost the war. I retreated so I could spend time rebuilding myself and my little family. So please don't think this was ever about me beating her and winning. It was about protecting us. We all lose when there is an abusive person on the other side because they fight dirty, they know exactly how to push our buttons and send us into a tailspin. They know how to twist everything we say and convince others against us x x

3nanny6 you're very kind, thank you.

There's comfort to be found in the knowledge that others experiences mirror your own.

I flicked in and out of this thread because as it so often happens people start baiting others and twisting all the postings up whereby people become aggressive and unkind to each other and when going through estrangement that can be demoralizing.

I skipped to the end and found the post from Smileless2012
and as per usual found a post from someone who is fully correct in all of that post she has written.

From your paragraph starting "Abuse is all about control. Controlling a helpless child (and you go on)
Right down to you last paragraph,
Unfortunately for us they won. We were silenced and estranged.

Your post sums me up completely only mine being.
Unfortunately for me she won. I was silenced and estranged.

I agree rosecarmel that this "thread began with an aggressive pitch from another site along with the ongoing, condescending sentiment that "they" wonder why they are still estranged".

I have taken this thread to be aimed at EP's, an example to illustrate why we might be estranged. As you say Yennifer it would perhaps be useful if HolyHannah explained the purpose of the OP.

Examples through links and personal accounts have been given about the form childhood abuse can take.

Abuse is all about control. Controlling a helpless child and controlling that child whenever possible in adulthood, using the tools of emotional blackmail and undermining their very sense of self.

Estrangement by AC who did not come from abusive, dysfunctional families is also about control. Their parents access to them is controlled with low contact for example and total estrangement, non contact is the ultimate use of their power. Their parents can't have any contact with them, if they prevent it.

Another example of power is withholding GC, for some the ultimate act of abuse especially when GP and GC have had regular contact and a loving relationship with their GP's.

"When abusers 'feel out of control' they lash out, insult and otherwise try to silence anyone that doesn't share their distorted perceptions".

This is certainly what myself and Mr. S. experienced when the abuser in our case feared that our relationship and influence over their intended victim, would enable them to see that they were being manipulated and controlled.

Unfortunately for us they won. We were silenced and estranged.

Let's leave the carrots and silly stories about my mother out of it. I don't want to be the person I was around her again and I'm seeing some of it creeping in again x

Good post I think rosecarmel

Then just dish about carrots!

I thought it was "why you, might be estranged" meaning ECs? Then linked text to the sort of person I have estranged from when I first read it? Only HolyHannah can clarify if I'm reading it right. Too tired for thinking x

To be clear, I wasn't joking- I meant what I said- If taken as derogatory or defensive, that's of course one's prerogative-

The thread began with an aggressive pitch from another site along with the ongoing, condescending sentiment that "they" wonder why they are still estranged- Leading one to assume that in order for one to know why "they" still wonder, that they're perhaps an authority on the subject of others continued wonder-

I could assume authority and offer all estranged adult children, since they are of course all stereotypically the same, a blanket apology and cookie cutter explanation- But I'll refrain-

I'll present a argument instead: This thread is click-bait- Like them strange ads at the bottom of so many sites, this woman cured her nail fungus with, this man cured his erectile dysfunction with, this estranged adult child finally figured-

So, what's Cardi B dishing about today?

How about we ALL have a good laugh about ourselves?

Yennifer -- It's about the loss of control. When abusers feel 'out of control' they lash out, insult and otherwise try to silence anyone that doesn't share their distorted perceptions. The truth is so ugly to them denial is their only safe haven. The need to be 'better' in the relationship and be in control is more important then being happy. That's why the ultimate projection is, "You need to 'grow up'. You're so immature."

I'm very proud of myself for breaking the cycle and protecting my children from my abusive mother. I'm very thankful to the counsellor I saw who was a volunteer and gave me 6 months of real understanding and growth. I am thankful to my children's other grandparents who are wonderful even if we don't get to see them as much as we would like due to distance. I'm also thankful to the parents/grandparents here who have shown so much kindness and understanding even though we are coming to estrangement from vastly different directions and sometimes struggle to understand each other. There really isn't anything that can or will change that Sparkling and Yogagirl. I really would reommend councilling, I'm not your child and this isn't my fight x x

Yogagirl -- Don't worry, those of us who have had the courage to walk away from our dysfunctional upbringings are used to being called stupid and juvenile and WORSE.

And yes... 'Shame' on good councilors for helping Us break the cycle of abuse.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

…..Hi-lighting the reason there is a Mumsnet site & a Gransnet site.

On the other hand Yennifer perhaps your Mother, wanting an end to the argument, said she'd found the watch but actually hadn't! If you want my opinion on your 'gaslighting' post, I thought it was stupid & very juvenile

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It needs no explanation.

Sparkling -- What do you mean by, "I think you all need another thread to avoid all this silliness, for that what it is. It has become just an unkind distraction of pettiness."

What is "silly" here?