Why you might be estranged... aka the same theme/attitude of EP/EGP's that EAC understand.

You can’t have it both ways. Once a child reaches 18 they are entitled to make their own decisions and that probably means making their own mind up whom they see or don’t see, that includes grandparents. To say grandparents should respect their children’s right to not let them see their own grandchildren you are sayings your parents have no rights over you, that in turn will apply to your own children, they too won’t listen to you, why should they? When they come if age they can work things out for themselves. If they refuse z gift in a will that’s fine to!as a proviso would be put in the will it to take that into account and it can go to s cats home if they wish, so it’s no problem.
I do think this thread is to offer support estranged grandparents, their are sites for estranged children.

Yeah, I don't see end of life letters "always" having ill effects either- At the same time, I understand why anyone would prefer they weren't left- But even if left they don't need to be read- There's usually something other than letters that could be given, to be either accepted or dismissed-

There are plenty of estranged grandparents that leave well enough alone while alive by honoring requests to be left alone- But perhaps now is the time revise those requests to insert the provision that you don't want you or your children to be mentioned in their wills, don't want any of their belongings, monetary or otherwise and don't want to be notified of their deaths either-

Any grandparent that has thus far honored requests to be left alone while alive would most likely honor the above requests upon their death as well-

Yennifer -- Oh yes. You just know that even though 'mom' got told she's an AH and that she is going to apologize that the drama will not end there.

People like that will continue the drama in another way and she won't let it go. The gas-lighting will begin and in the future she will have rewritten the whole story and she'll come out looking like the 'hero'.

I don't grasp why abusive people create conflict/drama and then want to be lauded as some hero for cleaning up a 'mess' that didn't even exist until they made it.

We did lose power again, after cheese on toast. We all watched a dvd on a portable tiny player in the end, too dark for board games x

I think we had the conversation before where we talked about people not wanting to share too much detail about their situations because of being identified. So I think links to other relatable situations help a lot. My mother was very jealous and would behave like the mum in that example. I wouldn't be surprised if that scarf got lost or damaged by "accident" x

No I wouldn't take that as being told to go elsewhere HollyHannah. There aren't any threads on this estrangement forum that have been set up for the benefit of EP's and EGP's but there are 3, for the benefit of EAC.

On this thread alone, there are in the region of 15 links to illustrate the worse of abusive parental behaviour. Your last post includes a link to what you regard as "a perfect example of a narc mom".

This is GN. It isn't a site purely for EAC. There are EP's and EGP's who read and post here and as one of them, I find the constant need for links and references to abusive narcissistic parents, mothers in particular distasteful.

I don't have to read them of course, and I don't have to comment on them but I and anyone else should be able to do so without being accused of jumping "on everything that could be used/meant another way by EAC's".

IMO constant references to abusive narcissistic mothers and abusive parents does nothing to encourage dialogue from those with personal experience of estrangement, whether they are the estranged or the estranger.

Talking from ones personal experience on the other hand does.

Yennifer -- The "common theme" of the 'loving letter'/guilt trip themed/'drama creating' final letter...

"It will just firm up whatever the grandchildren have been told because why would a normal person make their last act on earth causing issues in the family? It might damage an otherwise good relationship with their parents or they will just feel hurt and guilty. I can't see any good coming of it at all."

You nailed it. I have heard stories from other EAC who had to deal with the "final letter" scenario to their children, the 'beloved' Grands... And I know the conclusion...

EAC who have gotten healthy and explained the unhealthy they grew up around? They EXPLAINED the dysfunction/abuse they suffered to their children and when "the letter"/memory box etc. arrives? The grand-child(ren) almost universally (unless they were also abused) go, "Wow. You were right. It's exactly what You said they'd say..." and they throw the 'stuff' away and carry on with their lives with no further thought toward their 'lost relationship' with a stranger, regardless of if they share DNA.

It is the last chance/Hail Mary to try to wreck/cause discord in their AC's life, that they were denied when their AC went No Contact. Also known as creating drama...

As an example of creating drama -- www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/f0pmp1/aita_for_not_letting_my_teen_daughter_accept_a/

This is a perfect example of a Narc 'mom' creating drama and trying to play, "I'm right/if they disagree" card? I was doing/behaving the way I thought was 'best' for the 'right' reason...

The 'mom' without saying it this way meant -- "Please skip/ignore 'the part' where I Goggled the value of the gift and unilaterally decided that it was inappropriate gift (due to its original retail value) for my/a 13 year old AND all the BS justifications/excuses I made because I was jealous that someone else was given 'something' regardless of monetary value and the person who received the gift was not ME. So NOW, because the gift was NOT to ME? I must find a 'reason' that the recipient of that gift, someone I think doesn't deserve 'it' can't have 'it' because I am 'in control' AND the only one who deserves 'nice things'."

The comments section is brilliant on this one...

Many called out her dysfunctional thinking AND how her children will see this behavior in the future... Many predicted, "You'll be an EP in the future wondering WHY."

Smileless -- So if I were to say to EP's on a thread about being supportive of EP's and EGP's, that there is a site dedicated to people who share their view in the world that is sanitized of anyone with a differing view, EAC/abused AC... You wouldn't take THAT as saying, "EP's -- Go elsewhere."?

This is a thread about attitudes and behaviors that EAC commonly encounter. Yogagirl came on and gave a 'standard theme reply' of "Surely this thread should be on Mumsnet." and you clearly think it's appropriate/okay to say that because you have not called the statement out TWICE now. And then tried to 'explain away' not speaking against that statement by turning it on what you perceive as a 'falsehood' stated by Starblaze... Whether what she said is true or not, how does that relate to what Yogagirl said?

So, please explain to me, how it is OK for anyone to post that statement on this thread/anywhere on GN and not object? Or are you planning to give me the old, "I already answered THAT." reply again...

The way to clear up how you feel is to make a definitive statement like, "It is not okay to insinuate that some threads and contributors here on Gransnet should go 'elsewhere' whether they be EAC OR EP's/EGP's." Which is exactly what I SAY.

ANYONE who tries to 'police' this site who is not an Admin should not say who 'belongs' or not and ALL users here should stand against statements like that.

So to Yogagirl, would you be okay if I told YOU, "Go elsewhere. There's a safe-space for EP's where people that disagree with you and your attitude are sanitized away, unlike here where everyone is free to tell their truth."? I bet NOT and yet you are free to say that to Me and expect not to be addressed/questioned?

Smileless, IF I said 'that' to Yogagirl, would you find an excuse to defend my clearly inappropriate comment like you did hers or would you call Me out for suggesting something stupid/inappropriate like 'that'?

loveOc

Ha ha, I'm with you there Smileless. I enjoy my TV and don't mind admitting it!

Moving on and getting better is a work in progress isn't it and it's very sad when some don't seem to be able to do either.

I'm being positive; no power cuts here tonight because a new series of Endeavour begins. Fingers crossed.

Enjoy hunkering down in the storm .. weather is a refuge for me ..

Maybe this isnt the place to be spending too much time. I will think about it. My mother hurt me more than I ever thought possible, if my wounds were physical I'd be head to toe scars and lacerations. I still wouldn't take it out on anyone else but I would guess some do and just can't see that is what they are doing. Those people will never move on and get better. My power keeps going. Need to check the candles and find the board games incase x

Yes it was me Starblaze was referring too Yennifer and I was the poster I referred too in my response to HollyHannah who was stalked and bullied for weeks here on GN.

I know from first hand experience how cruel some posters can be and I'm sorry if that's something you've also experienced.

My niece reestablished contact with my mother when she became an adult- She was estranged from her mother off and on but not my mother again after reconnecting - Prior, my mother inquired, but never pressed-

Was it you Starblaze meant Smileless2012? She doesn't seem to be here now and I'm sure I can see the way things are for myself anyway. An EP here did say something quite cruel to me on another post that you probably didn't see, I feel more sensitive since but ive never been "defensive" to anyone since my mother, until I joined here. It's strange to be called that again really because it's not really who I am if you see what I mean x

If you read my posts here on GN you'll see that it isn't just EP's who are "important" to me Yennifer.

I didn't read Yogagirl's post as telling EAC to get lost, and I don't have an issue with others saying they did read it that way. I will not though, be accused of wishing to alienate any poster because they happen to be an EAC.

Another long time friend of mine here on GN is an EAC.

I'm no more bias than anyone else. Of course I am particularly sensitive to threads and individual posts that I feel are 'having a go' at all EP's and EGP's just as EAC are sensitive to anything they feel is directed at them because they have estranged their parents.

Obviously I am seeing it from the perspective of an estranging parent, I just can't see it going well after racking my brain. I'd be devatatated if such a letter came to my kids, not for me, for them. Sometimes things have to be let go. I could tell all my family the awful things she said about them, I could tell one of my brothers that she said his wife looked like troll and would have ugly children. Why would I heap more upset on things? I'd rather they never spoke to me again than risk hurting them. I would probably not be believed anyway and they would just think worse of me. Erase me from their minds and memory. Better just to leave quietly and let them live as they will x

Sparkling, I understand that you didn't mention anything being unlawful- I was simply inquiring-

It's a conundrum for many EGP's I think Yennifer.

There's of course the possibility that a GP will die before their GC have reached the age of independence so they wont be able to reach out to them.

There's perhaps the fear that if they do reach out to their adult GC they'll be rejected because of what's been said about them by their parents, which wont necessarily be true in every case. If that happens the GP's may never be in a position to put their side of the case.

TBH I don't know what the answer is. I agree that a great deal of thought needs to be given, we often think about it and still don't know what, if anything we should or will do.

That's how I felt reading it Smileless2012. Like I was being told to get lost. Surely friends can bear to hear a different take on that said kindly? What about the other people you chat to here? Aren't they important to you too? Or just other EPs? Not meaning to be harsh but you jump on everything that could be used/meant another way from EACs. I didn't think you were biased? x

I think that's horrifying Sparkling! I can see 3 outcomes to that. It will just firm up whatever the grandchildren have been told because why would a normal person make their last act on earth causing issues in the family? It might damage an otherwise good relationship with their parents or they will just feel hurt and guilty. I can't see any good coming of it at all. Either reach out once to grandchildren as adults while you are alive and let them decide if they want to talk or don't anything at all. I don't understand why that would be a normal thing to do. It would just be "having the last word" and I think it needs rethinking x

I have never mentioned anything unlawful. I said I would keep my distance, but would leave grandchildren what I found in my will plus a letter explaining why I wasn't allowed to be part of their lives. Of course ,mcould not be given to them until after the legal age of consent, when a controlling parent has no rights, by then the child will have become adult and will be questioning and want to know for themselves the side of the family never mentioned or if they are, in a disparaging way. They can make their own minds up. Very close to home I saw this happen. A very close bond then developed with the grandma and granddaughter.

Starblazes claims that she has been stalked and bullied here on GN because she's and EAC are false HollyHannah.

My response to her latest post of that nature is one I stand by. She posted on here to warn a relatively new poster about 2 posters she didn't name, being all sweetness and light until the poster she was warning, says something 'they' don't like and then they'll call the cavalry in to stalk her all over GN.

It was a malicious post seeking to cause upset, unpleasantness and division, just like we had here on GN toward the end of last year. Three threads were eventually deleted and what one poster was subjected too over a sustained period was shameful.

I chose not to respond directly to Yogagirl's comment but as my friend who rarely posts; the friend I made here on GN 7 years ago. Querying why a particular thread isn't on MN is not in any way comparable to poster accusing 2 GN members of being bullies and stalkers, and is not telling EAC to go else where.

Sparkling, are you saying it's unlawful to leave a letter or have been asked not to?

I do know that individuals can leave money/items to whoever they choose and that the recipient can refuse- Once they've refused, they've no say where or to whom it goes to-