Why you might be estranged... aka the same theme/attitude of EP/EGP's that EAC understand.

I wonder if unicorn horns could be used to stop leaks ..

Yennifer -- I like your analogy. Yes, healing from abuse is like fixing the 'leak'. Continuing to run on dysfunctional thinking is like 'topping up the oil'... The engine still runs but it's more work then it needs to be (unhappy) when it could be fixed (happier) and have smoother sailing down the road. Unfortunately many EP's don't see the leak (black and white/dysfunctional thinking) so there's no hope of them beginning to fix it.

Sparkling -- That's the common theme abused EAC are talking about. We are told/have it re-enforced/gaslighted to Us that We are causing our 'parent' to have to "walk on egg-shells" in order to not upset us (the inference that We are 'imagining slights'), all the while using double meanings and "I didn't mean it 'that' way..." as deflections of their behavior.

It's not as simple as survivors just "moving on" and "enjoying new found freedom". That's a good way to repeat old patterns. Dealing with the fallout and acknowledging how abuse molded you is the only way to move forward.

Or of course you can just keep topping it up, like addicts and alcoholics do trying to replace lost happiness. Or you can take your lost happiness from your partner or from your own children and become like your abuser. You must have some understanding of why many ECs are wanting to avoid that x

Sparkling, abusive people do double meanings on purpose or gaslighting is also popular. Until you fully understand how you were abused and what actual damage there is, you can't fix it. Talking about it helps. If the oil in your car is leaking, you can't just keep topping it up, you need to find and repair the leak x

Judging by the comments made, the jargon used, it must be so difficult for any parent or child , if they are walking on egg shells all the time wary of saying anything that can be interpreted as a double meanings or an imagined slight. if I was dealing with some one that saw problems with my every action I think I would be relieved for them to go their own way for some peace, why when they do estrange is their a continued picking over on what or what not was wrong instead of just enjoying their new found freedom. Life is complicated enough.

HolyHanna, each person's experience is unique, they don't fit a specific mold- Therfore, neither do estranged parents situations or estranged children's situations- Indeed some parents are pretending but not all- Does this mean they did nothing wrong? Of course not- But for whatever the reason/s, they're incapable of seeing the mistakes they've made and the toll that those mistakes have taken on the relationships in the family- Yes, even when staring them in the face- They're incapable of holding themselves accountable- At best, they resort to blame-

HolyHannah

Madgran -- My apologies. I didn't mean to imply that my definition was unclear in this case (in my response to Yennifer). I was agreeing with Yennifer's "My mother would constantly use double meanings when she wasn't being outright nasty. As soon as you get upset that's not what she meant..." and I added the point of my 'mom' would purposefully misread/misinterpret something as clear as what I wrote, just to create drama/upset me/fluster me etc.

I was also agreeing with, "So many abusive tactics..."

As for, "I am genuinely unsure what the carrots and parsnips mentioned by another poster relate to. I am not purposefully misunderstanding, I just don't understand." I can see/agree with your POV on that one. I know how I read/interpreted it, but how I read something and how it was meant is on the writer to explain or not and because I'm unsure I won't throw out an assumption.

I agree. I thought I made my definition of what I consider unicorn, in context, very clear.

You did Holy Hannah and thankyou, I appreciated your response.

I am genuinely unsure what the carrots and parsnips mentioned by another poster relate to. I am not purposefully misunderstanding, I just don't understand.

rosecarmel -- That's just the thing. Dysfunction begets dysfunction. My 'mom' and sister run on the same imprinted form. I was imprinted differently due to the forms of my abuse. That's what good counselling does. It teaches you better/healthier ways of perceiving your situation and yourself as a person.

Recovery is about undoing the negative imprinting. Once you see how your own imprinting effects you and how you perceive others' you can break the chain.

Black and white thinkers don't even see themselves doing it. Contradictory thinkers don't see it in themselves either.

For example, "I didn't do anything to deserve estrangement." says one EP -- She was a "good parent" but later admits to hitting her adult son in the face several times.

"I didn't do anything worth cutting Me out of their lives." Parent later admits she had her husband write their EA daughters that if they basically didn't "fall in line" they would be removed from the will but IF they jumped through a bunch of hoops and showed "proper respect" they MIGHT get put back in.

"At least my husband and I have a clean conscience that we have done nothing wrong to bring this about, nor can we fix things." And yet admits prior to saying that, "I knew as soon as I opened my mouth to address the issues that they would pack up our GC and stop all communication with us."

And yet all these EP's claim to have "no clue" why their AC have walked away. As the one doctor said, "Are estranged parents 'clueless'? No, they only pretend to be."

I u derstood what you were saying HolyHannah, I have yet to meet a unicorn EC either, shocking shocking stories. My mother would constantly use double meanings when she wasn't being outright nasty. As soon as you get upset that's not what she meant and you are the bad guy here! So many abusive tactics and we didn't write the definitions of abuse, greater minds did. We only know the damage x

Should a parent have a carrot on their head instead of a golden horn, but "insists" (operative word) that it's a horn, therefore they're "golden" (without fault), how likely is it that their child won't be imprinted with a similar "insistance"?

Who walks away from their family of origin without "any" imprinting? I don't know-

Yennifer -- I agree. I thought I made my definition of what I consider unicorn, in context, very clear.

My 'mom' was a master at purposefully misunderstanding what I was saying, even after explaining. It's a technique to keep their victim off-balance. It makes you think you are 'crazy' because even when being clear and concise it's like whatever you are saying is 'wrong' to them and POOF they carry on with their own narrative.

Emotional abusers play mind-games. Put facts in front of them -- those 'facts' are only a "certain point of view" (in their eyes). In other words, a "fact" is only such if THEY believe it is true. Otherwise they ignore, diminish or flail in with a, "But... BUT... Not ALL estranged parents!"

I get it. Yes, there are some RARE cases where ongoing poor family systems are not the cause or that the EP is not abusive. Those are the minority if you talk to EAC. The only group that think it is common or even happens, 'more often then some are willing to accept' are EP's.

I just move last things I don't understand, otherwise it comes across as dismissive and a way to silence someone which is difficult for ACs who have experienced that as part of the abuse x

Nothing wrong with using metaphors or similies to express yourself.

Nothing wrong atall ... it does cause confusion when others don't understand them! I am still pondering on what carrots and parsnips are meant to mean in this context!

Nothing wrong with using metaphors or similies to express yourself.

Starlady, family scapegoats are not seen as equals-

Yes, stepping back is a healthy response as is understanding who is responsible for what- And make a compassionate effort to express that a person may well be "better at" something but not "better than" another-

Why would criticising you AC who is a grown up and a parent themselves not be abusive? Sounds controlling and disrespectful to me if you constantly put yourselves above them x

Unicorns, carrying parsnips and carrots, what on earth has this thread descended into. You can't be serious.

"I have hope that the long term effects of abusive/dysfunctional families is finally being recognized so that victims can get help/support for once in their lives."

I hope so, too, HolyHannah.

"No source I have found shows EAC who don't say that abuse/neglect or some other poor family dynamic wasn't the reason for estrangement."

But, IMO, a "poor family dynamic" can develop between "good, loving parents" and their AC. This often happens, I think, for example, when the parents can't adjust to the fact that their AC is now an adult and no longer under parental jurisdiction. These are the parents, IMO, who are most likely to continue to give unwanted advice, criticize, and undermine their AC as parents despite the AC's protests. They may love their AC as much as ever but have trouble respecting them as adults/parents. And often, I've seen this lead to a CO. So while I'm not denying the abuse that some of you here have undergone, I can't agree that the EAC w/ loving parents is a "unicorn."

Rose, I'm not sure how you know that certain family members "think they're better than" you (perhaps they feel that way about everyone?). But if a family member made it obvious that they looked down at me that way, I would distance myself from them as much as I could. I don't need that kind of negativity in my life, and neither, I'm sure do you.

I don’t think that estranged adult children from actual properly good families are unicorns per se.

I think that it does happen although, obviously not to every estranged parent.

But to say that they are unicorns, or conversely that good estranged parents are unicorns is a bit disingenuous.

Some people just for whatever reason do not like their family.

Yennifer -- Yes. I believe it will, but like everything it will take time. The stigma around homosexuality has changed drastically (for the better) in my life-time. I have hope that the long term effects of abusive/dysfunctional families is finally being recognized so that victims can get help/support for once in their lives.

HolyHannah, do you think this cycle will be broken more and more as society changes?