Estrangement or alienation?

okay, that's fine ❤️

My 17 yr old grandaughter makes excuses not to see us. We have always been very close to her and been very involved with her life, taking her on holidays, lovely outings, always supported her when life was difficult at Home. Taken her to university open days . She now never answers text messages, won’t answer the phone and us very quiet when with the family. I know she is about to take a levels and is studying hard but it’s so rude to alienate us and ignore us. I don’t call her often, maybe once a week, so it’s not as if I’m harrassing her. How should I tackle this.

I'd suggest not referring to it as "rude" - at least just for the moment. You just said she's busy studying etc. But she's also a teen with all the pressures that brings. Take a step back for now, but a big step forward when she approaches you. Unless there are other "family" problems I'm sure it's just "a stage" xx

Gingster She is 17; studying hard; a teenager! Yes it is rude but I would leave and not make too big a deal at the moment. Carry on being yourself; text occasionally.."Just checking in to say Hi. Hope you are ok" type messages maybe. Maybe if a chance arises, or when exams are over take a chance to ask if there is anything bothering her, but gently rather than accusingly. Say you have noticed she seems distant; ask if you have done something to upset her or is something worrying her?

Have you asked her parents about it by the way?

Unless something specific has happened to cause this, then it probably is teenage stress and angst.

….also I'm not sure that what you describe with your granddaughter is alienation as such, if caused by teenage growing up/angst etc. . I hope not as that would be so painful for you

Thanks for your advice which is helpful. She has told her mum that she finds my dh , her grandad, annoying and is always asking her if she wants, needs anything. Asking if everything is ok? Etc. He absolutely adores her and would do anything for her, as would I. She says I am bossy and argumentative with grandad. Just a normal family really. I’m quite upset and feel very let down .

I'm sure Mollymalone and Madgran are right Gingster and it's a phase she's going through.

It's not easy being 17 with the pressure A levels. I understand you feeling upset and let down though.

Maybe call her once a fortnight and keep the conversation light and chatty about what you and your DH have been up too, rather than asking her about what she's been doing.

Try not to worry. Are you seeing them over the Christmas holiday? If so, just try to enjoy it.

So, she’s telling you exactly why she’s distancing herself and....you persist on continuing to push and complain and call her rude??? Seriously? Give her space. She’s a 17 year old who doesn’t want to talk to her granny weekly, even if her granny wasn’t bossy and unpleasant and prying.

OutsideDave -- Exactly. I once heard an EP say something like, "Well yes, there were signs, but who would think that would lead to estrangement?"

I suggest the answer to that is someone who doesn't care about the obvious increased signs/annoyance of the person doing the distancing.

This is where EAC/EGC run into problems... Backing away slowly = being rude. Trying to set boundaries = immature. Not responding fast enough = disrespect. Not responding at all = immature, disrespectful and abusive. Actually saying, "Stop being so invasive." leads to "How I am/we being invasive? What did we do? What do you want from Us? We're trying so hard!" which = EXHAUSTING.

And for those who have, "been there and done that" by actually spelling out, "Here's why I don't want to be around You/the 'family' etc..." as soon as you/if you finish? Then expect the gas-lighting to begin.

"But. But... BUT... We always had your best interests at heart. We loved you! We did our best! Can't you remember the 'good times'? Holding on to 'this' just hurts everyone. Can't you just forgive/forget?" Which = emotionally exhausting and a waste of time.

This is why children and grand-children go No Contact. And for those that are about to say, "I went No Contact with my child(ren)/grands because they were abusing Me." I say, "Give Me an honest and real time-line on that. I bet they walked away from You first. Your 'story' is the typical saving face of, 'They didn't leave ME. I left them.' and most of Us have heard that before." and I know all the variations like, 'When I cut off the money.' or 'When I stopped babysitting' or 'When I stopped doing...'

I’m quite upset and feel very let down .

Gangster, you do then know why your granddaughter is behaving as she is. Listen carefully to what she has expressed; at least she HAS expressed it. On the basis of that I would suggest nothing more than an occasional "Just checking in to say hi" type text, no more. If she is round with family say hello and then let her be; your husband too! She is 17 and is not appreciating the adoration and questions about her welfare. If she doesnt want to communicate at the moment so be it.

Gingster my advice was 'Unless there are other "family" problems'.

As so often in cases like this it seems there are. She thinks you are "bossy and argumentative" with her grandad. Do you have any idea how upsetting that can be for an obviously intelligent young adult to witness? She's seeing someone she loves being bullied! Then, he is looking to her for the love he may not be getting from you and she just can't handle that pressure. So that relationship is spoiled too!

You really do need to take a step back, both of you, and sort your own problems out because that is not "Just a normal family really".

Gingster - try to think long term here.

I can imagine it feels terribly hurtful, but I do think it's fairly normal for teenagers to turn away from their family or to express stress in anti social ways. It will be temporary but I do suggest giving her space. My Grandma used to write to me every week but always said she didn't expect me to reply (as they knew I was busy at university and working) and just want me to know that they loved me, thought of me and were happy I was living my own life. Maybe let the relationship be one sided for a while?

betty your GM sounds like a wise and lovely lady.

Wise words from all. Thankyou and a very happy xmas.

'Happy Christmas' to you too Gingster.

I think people forget that children can experience just as much stress as adults! Then they turn into adults too and we all have to let them go to make their own way in the world! If they don't need us too much then we did a good job of preparing them x

Gingster I sincerely hope you follow everyone's sensible advice and have a very happy Christmas as a result. Everyone deserves that .

HolyHannah love your posts. My M said I'd need her before she needed me. Seems she was wrong ?

This is why children and grand-children go No Contact. And for those that are about to say, "I went No Contact with my child(ren)/grands because they were abusing Me." I say, "Give Me an honest and real time-line on that. I bet they walked away from You first. Your 'story' is the typical saving face of, 'They didn't leave ME. I left them.' and most of Us have heard that before." and I know all the variations like, 'When I cut off the money.' or 'When I stopped babysitting' or 'When I stopped doing...'

Holy Hannah ...you seem to be saying that when an EP/EGP says that they estranged themselves from an AC/AGP they are kidding themselves that it was their choice?? In every case?? Really?

Hi Madgran, sometimes it is and sometimes not. Sometimes EP/EGP just have to let it go so they can have a better life. But, sometimes, as with my M, it's about saving face.

sometimes it is and sometimes not

Quite, Mollymalone6 exactly so and we are in agreement.

Which is why when statements are made, it is important whether talking about EACs, EGPs or EPs, to ensure that general statements that suggest that all members of one of those groups are an amorphous mass are not made. Each story is different, some will have common themes; that does not mean that those themes apply in every case. That was the reason why I asked HolyHannah the question.

Sometimes EP/EGP just have to let it go so they can have a better life.

As do some EACs. Something that some people whether EACs, EGPs, EPs struggle with, as is evidenced on this forum on occasions.

Madgran, just to explain, I wasn't telling EP/EGP's what to do. I was defending them for doing so.

Equally, I will defend EAC's. They have "let it go" by their very act of estrangement. It doesn't mean they don't still hurt or want to share those feelings. Same as EP/EGP's.

I think some people can change and some people cant or won't! So some people get left behind because if they can't change they can't admit they are hurting somebody and people know they won't stop x

MollyMalone I understood what you were saying. My comments were to explain why I asked Holy Hannah the question that I did.

FlyingFree I agree

Thank you for referring to that extract from HolyHannah's post Madgran.

TBH I find statements that make judgemental assumptions about EP's/GPs very upsetting, which is why I posted yesterday about the importance of sensitivity when discussing estrangement where both EP's/GPs and EAC are taking part.

I would not want to see posts of that nature here where EAC are sharing. For example it being said that had the AC of an EP not estranged their parent(s), their parent(s) would have estranged them.

Sweeping judgemental statements are at best thoughtless, and at worse very unkind.

I agree Mollymalone whether you're and EAC or EP/EGP , if you're hurting and want to share those feelings you should be able to do so. Those expressed feelings should be dealt with, with an open mind and acceptance that it may not have been your experience, but that doesn't mean it isn't an honest account of someone else's.

I think we have to let people feel how they feel! If somebody hasn't seen any evidence of something then either show them proof or emphasise that they haven't seen enough human love and kindness to know differently! They say that opinion is the lowest form of knowledge and understanding and empathy is the highest! ❤️