What else can I do for my daughter to want me in her life

Smileless,

Do you know how hard is to prove sexual abuse unless there are pictures, video, etc?

I am not saying her dh an abuser, but we cannot take OP at her word as she clearly does not know what sexual abuse is, as she elaborated on her post.

Exactly Madgran elena's D believes the allegations she's made against her stepfather to be true despite them having been investigated and no evidence found to substantiate her belief.

I'm staggered that any poster here should think it appropriate to suggest that her H is a sexual abuser in light of what we've been told.

And this is how sexual abuse persists generationally. There is something wrong with your DH that your DD thinks he’s abused her niece. Your daughter is being a good mother and protecting her children. Be a good grandmother and LISTEN to your children and grandchildren. Sending the police after your DD proves he’s a bully at the very least. She’s well rid of you.

First you say

"Me and my son were successful in him gaining custody of his daughter away from mother who physically and mentally abused her. My gd came away with issues, displaying signs of a sexual inappropriate behaviour. My son and his partner dealt with it all, putting her in counselling, social services etc"
So you first say your gd was abused

Then:
"My 11yr old gd has never been abused sexually by anybody, she observed her own mother doing things with numerous partners whilst in her care but we all know she hasn't been abused physically herself."

So you say your gd was NOT abused.

What is it? She was or she wasn't?

Your GD WAS SEXUALLY ABUSED. Whether it was physical or mental, your gd WAS SEXUALLY ABUSED

I can see how your dd does not want you around her kids.

You are in denial.

You do not know what sexual abuse is.
I doubt you were able to identify any red flags by your dh's behaviour.

I wonder if you should re think the allegation toward your GD, seeing it as a possibility because of the poor child's abusive upbringing during her first 5 years.

I agree with Smileless that it would be wise to reconsider re the allegation against your granddaughter, in the light of her inappropriate behaviour when she came to live with you. Your grandson is looking to his mother for support and too often children are disbelieved by adults because it is so difficult; there seems no reason, from what you say, as to why he should be lying. The poor child appears to have kept this secret for several years, how dreadful for him.

Your daughter has young children and will rightly want to take no risks with them. I cannot comment on why she feels that your husband must have abused your granddaughter...from what you have told us your GD could have learnt her behaviours from watching her mother as a young child. But if your daughter believes there is any possibility that she was abused by someone then she will rightly protect her children. From HER perspective you remain with a child abuser, and as she believes that she will struggle to let you be around her children, alone or otherwise.

You will never convince her she is wrong, the more you try, the more she is reaffirmed in her perceptions - especially in a subject of this magnitude.

I agree with Hitheres comment above. I think you have to accept her decision. Don't disown her. Tell her that you understand she must stand with her children. Tell her that your GD appeared to have learnt the behaviour from watching her own mother, not by being abused directly by your husband. Tell her you believe your Grandson (if you do!) After that it really is up to her.

I do understand how painful this is for you. I also understand your daughter's perspective on the basis of what she believes to be the truth.

This is the stuff of nightmares isn't it elena, I'm so sorry that you are going through this.

You say when your GD came to live with you, she exhibited signs of sexually inappropriate behaviour. I in no way wish to upset you but bearing that in mind, do you not think there is a possibility that she behaved inappropriately toward your GS all be it some time ago?

The time frame suggests that this alleged behaviour took place when your GD had been living away from her mother for a year, a time when she may have still been influenced by and have been coming to terms with what she herself had witnessed her mother doing.

Clearly if your GS's allegations are true, this has been an upsetting experience for him. Something that until he was older, he may not have realised was wrong but 'normal' childhood play, which of course it isn't.

I wonder if you should re think the allegation toward your GD, seeing it as a possibility because of the poor child's abusive upbringing during her first 5 years.

I am in no way excusing or condoning the allegations your D has made toward her step father, but wonder if it was the case that you dismissed your GS's allegations too quickly, she's lashing out.

I do not agree at all that by remaining with your H you're an enabler as he has been investigated and any allegations have not been proven.

Your D's refusal to allow you to see your GC even knowing that your H would not be present, and that you do not expect to have unsupervised contact, is IMO another sign of her lashing out.

There is sadly nothing you can do apart from send birthday cards and cards at Christmas to your GC and hope that your daughter will at some point relent and let you see them, or that when they're old enough, they'll make contact with you.

Again, I'm very sorry that this is happening in your family and hope that my response hasn't upset you.

Her perceptions are her reality. She thinks she is right.

Your perceptions are your reality. You think you are right

You will never convince her she is wrong, the more you try, the more she is reaffirmed in her perceptions - especially in a subject of this magnitude.

Now, I cannot say whether what happened, by whom when.

Do you acknowledge that her son may have been sexually abused by your niece? Are you even a tiny bit worried about what he went through for this long (5 years keeping the secret)?
There is 0 mention of concern for that.

All you care is to see your gc as if nothing happened. That is a huge red flag.

It is not atypical for a spouse to be in denial about something the other spouse did - I am not saying this is your case.
Has anybody ever expressed concern about your dh's actions or attitude around kids? Sitting them in his lap? Tickling when kid doesn't want to tickled?

I am team daughter. You are still married to the person that allegedly abused her niece and she is protecting her kids from sexual abuse and enablers (you are an enabler).

Drop it, don't bring it up again. The more you push, the further away she will go.

panda220.My gut feeling that son in law is behind this upsetting situation. Control comes to mind?
What was your relationship with DD before her marriage as from where I stand until SIL put the ring on DD finger it was an even keel with you and DD? There is very little you will achieve until your DGC are old enough to make their own minds up as to the relationship they have with you,
You have made them aware your door is an ever open door to themselves and their mother so all you can do is let them make up their own minds.
SIL will not always be able to control them who in my view the instigator in all this.

How do I get through to my daughter to make her see how wrong she is. My situation is quite complex surrounding sexual abuse (untrue) of one of my gc. She is 11 now and had an awful upbringing until 5yrs old. Me and my son were successful in him gaining custody of his daughter away from mother who physically and mentally abused her. My gd came away with issues, displaying signs of a sexual inappropriate behaviour. My son and his partner dealt with it all, putting her in counselling, social services etc. She is now a happy healthy child, of whom myself and husband have a massive bond with and a very loving relationship. My daughters son who is also 11, about 10 weeks ago handed his mother a note stating my 11 yr old gd (his cousin) had done sexual things with him when they were about 6yrs old. Where it came from is beyond me but it happened, prompting my daughter to immediately stop contact with me seeing her 3 children, her youngest being 3yrs old. She went to the police, social services and nest for help and advice. The best came when she then dropped the bombshell that she believed my husband must have sexually abused my 11yr old gd (her neice) because of how she had behaved with my 11yr old grandson, her son, (she must have been taught), daughters words. My husband was in complete disbelief and myself devastated my daughter could think such a thing. So much so my husband went to the police to have them pay my daughter and her partner a visit to ask they stop with these allegations. My 11yr old gd has never been abused sexually by anybody, she observed her own mother doing things with numerous partners whilst in her care but we all know she hasn't been abused physically herself. Social services were involved yet again in my gd life, and after 2 months of her being spoken to with social workers, school etc they have all closed down the cases opened by my daughter, reports written, no further action, no concerns, no evidence, proof etc. All of this fed back to my daughter who still is stomping her feet claiming my husband has abused gd, (her neice). With all this my daughter is refusing me contact with my gc. My husband has been so sickened and disgusted with her he has stated he will never allow my gc over his doorstep or my daughter of whom he will never speak to again. I have begged my daughter to allow me to see my gc, with her present, I have told her she needn't worry about my husband (her stepfather) as he refuses to ever have contact with her family ever again, even if I make it up with her. My family have all said I should disown my daughter for the awful accusation she made but as close as I have always been with her I just can't bring myself to do this so it has caused a strain on my marriage. I lost my job and am under the dr. I text my daughter now and then to ask to see my gc. All I ever get back is a repeat of her many texts of how shes protecting her children and because I am with the man she believes has done the unspeakable how can she allow me contact. I've told her a thousand times that I would be alone, I would remain in her home with her present, I just dont know what more I can do. And even before all this my husband never ever came with me to see my gc anyway and my daughter never came to my home either. So if anybody has any suggestions or advice on what I can possibly do I would greatly appreciate it, sorry for the long message everyone...

I firmly believe you're doing the right thing Panda, MissA* and FlyingSolo are right. As MissA has posted "Nobody should be treated like a doormat by anyone, particularly family".

In fact Pandas lengthy reply to you personally also appears to have been ignored agnurse!

agnurse ...I agree. There's nothing wrong with having boundaries. But you also have to accept that people have a right to choose not to have a relationship with you if they don't like your boundaries.

And Panda has accepted that and has said so endlessly, but for some reason her acknowledgement of that fact and her acceptance appear to be being ignored by you. I am therefore unclear why the need for that acceptance needs stating in this particular context for this OP!!

Yes, that's fair enough.

MissAdventure

I agree. There's nothing wrong with having boundaries. But you also have to accept that people have a right to choose not to have a relationship with you if they don't like your boundaries.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Panda220, I just wanted to say I agree with you. I believe you are doing the right thing and I think most of us understand what decision you have made and why. You can’t change how your daughter behaves towards you but you can change your reaction and thought processes to it and that is what you are doing by accepting it. This is the best thing you could do for your own well being and for the sake of the rest of your family who don’t want to see you continue to suffer so much. I hope everything works out as well as possible for you.

There is nothing wrong with either adult children OR their parents having boundaries in place.
Nobody should be treated like a doormat by anyone, particularly family.

Agnurse, I have not given up hope, or written off, my daughter. I have let her know the door is always open. I have requested that I may see the children but have so far been blanked. She has said she wouldn't stop me seeing the children again. I have not been looking for sympathy here and have stuck to the facts. It is what it is now. I have explained that my dd had form for cutting people off who have dared to question her or stick up for themselves I.e by arguing with her. I have not done this as I know it would not help the situation. Thank you everyone who has offered me their kind words and shown me that I have accept that she no longer requires a relationship with me or other members of her family. I have to respect that but have come to the realisation that i do not deserve to be ignored and disrespected. I don't want trouble. Just a nice easy relationship like before. I live in the hope that she sees for herself that whilst I was always there for her, never interfering in her marriage or life, showing only care and love, she might decide that she wants her family. We are here for her and the children, but I really can't see a way forward until it's what she wants too. I can't keep putting myself in the same painful situation.

Holy Hannah ...* "I know my AC has 'issues' in their relationship with me but if I can't work it out with them, I still want a relationship with my grands..."*

That is not a summary of what Panda has said or is doing! She has tried to work it out. She has accepted that it is up to her daughter whether she wants a relationship with her or not. Through all this her daughter has wanted her to look after her grandchildren, despite the problems. She is saying she will do that and would like to continue with that and see them. But she accepts this is for her daughter to decide.

Panda is putting the decision into her daughters hands as an adult who can take responsibility for her own decision. Just as Panda is taking responsibility for her own well being and her own life and saying that she will step back!

The ball is in her AC daughters court! She can estrange if she wishes that is her right. She can use her mother for childcare, whilst her mother is willing. But it's all her decision!!

Hmmm... As I understand Panda's situation, ODD wants her to take the children quite often. So ODD also is trying to work around the fact that she and Panda have a strained relationship. I read Panda's post as saying in effect, "If you don't want to work on a relationship w/ me, can we at least work out a more reasonable babysitting schedule?" Am I wrong, Panda?

Granted, I'm not sure how she'll take the part about her, and I get the impression you're not either. I think I would have just asked for a more reasonable/definite schedule w/ the GC, but IDK. She might be miffed that you even asked that, as I know you know. I hope not, but I'm glad you're prepared for it.

HolyHannah, If you shudder at that theme does that mean you think that if I have issues with my relationship with my AC and his partner (I don't like how they behave towards me) and if I can't work it out with them that you think it is ok for me to now feel I don't want to form a relationship with their baby (my grandchild)?

agnurse -- I agree. I shudder at the theme of, "I know my AC has 'issues' in their relationship with me but if I can't work it out with them, I still want a relationship with my grands..."

If someone cannot manage a mature adult relationship with me? It means they don't share enough of my value system to be around my kids. So yes, if someone asked that of me? Nope.

When I was growing up my 'mom' would always say, "As a child it's a dictatorship (her being that) and then as you grow up it'll become a negotiable thing and then equals." I'm still waiting for phase one to end...

Do I think it's acceptable for her to walk on eggshells? No. But then, she has to recognize that you don't get to basically write off the parents and request to still have a relationship with the children.

I am wondering if you are actually reading Pandas posts agnurse

Panda you are welcome and your last post explains the difficult situation for you all so well. I hope you can feel confident despite the sadness that you are doing the right thing for you AND for your daughter by handing the responsibility to her as an adult. And I hope that your grandchildren do not suffer but ofcourse as you know that is also your daughters responsibility, not yours!

The OP isn't righting off the parents though is she agnurse, she simply wants to know if her D wants to have a relationship with her or not, and if not she is hoping to be able to see her GC.